Hi Folks
With all the info on this site from u pros I probably shouldn’t be asking about reduction train... but here goes... :-)

Lami GSB 120 1 L w/ 6K Saragossa , 30 lb. power pro braid.....

I decided on a KR build and after reading way too much stuff online, I came away with thinking I was supposed to use KL guides...
Well after reading on, it appears I should be using KL-H guides...

That reel has little to no upsweep, the choke point actually doesn’t hit the rod...
I’m pretty tough on rods and don’t like the idea of those tall KL-H collector,,, I know, dumb idea, right?

I chose a KW collector that pretty much matches the height of a KL 30 and took off from there....

I’m going to try and include a pic or link to a pic that shows my intended layout.... if it doesn’t work I’ll find a way (hopefully) and post again..

[www.striped-bass.com]

Yippee, it worked
With the rod in the wrapper I run a line through the center of the collector and on the bottom (close to ? ) of the choke guide. The line travels through the center of the other two reduction guides.... I’m happy with this but really not sure if maybe I should have just gone with the off the shelf KR calculator and KL-H guides.....

I’ll be standing by waiting to get beat up on this... LOL

appreciate your thoughts, Gup

God Bless America

Guppy

It’s really not a KR guide reduction train, it’s an NGC layout . If you want to do a KR reduction train, there are several options, like KL25H, KL12H, KL7M, and KL6L; or KL25H, KL12H, KL8M, KL7L. In both of these cases the KL6L and KL7L would be the choke guide, and you could use KT6 or KT7 running guides, respectively. if you wanted to use a larger running guide could try KL25H, KL12H, KL8M, to KT8 runners. If you want a double foot KR stripping guide then use the RV25 in place of the KL25H, they are both the same height. An all double foot KR reduction train would be RV25, RV16, KW12m to runners as large as KT10. The RV25, RV16 and KW10M only come in a titanium frame, thus cost more.
If you don’t like these options than use a NGC set up, similar to the one you have except get rid of the KW16, which is really out of place, since it’s btween two single ft guide, For example, KW30, KL20, KL12, to your KT runners.
I also don’t like your non progressive spacing, the runners are too far apart, and the last reduction guide is too close to the choke guide. Your spacing is certainly not what I would use. Try using progressive spacing, not only will it look better but will also perform better..
Hopefully, someone with more surf rod building experience than I will chime in and give their opinions.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2021 09:36PM by Norman Miller.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s really not a KR guide reduction train,
> it’s an NGC layout . If you want to do a KR
> reduction train, there are several options, like
> KL25H, KL12H, KL7M, and KL6L; or KL25H, KL12H,
> KL8M, KL7L. In both of these cases the KL6L and
> KL7L would be the choke guide, and you could use
> KT6 or KT7 running guides, respectively. if you
> wanted to use a larger running guide could try
> KL25H, KL10H, KL8M, to KT8 runners. If you want a
> double foot KR stripping guide then use the RV25
> in place of the KL25H, they are both the same
> height. An all double foot KR reduction train
> would be RV25, RV16, KW12m to runners as large as
> KT10. The RV25, RV16 and KW10M only come in a
> titanium frame, thus cost more.
> If you don’t like these options than use a NGC
> set up, similar to the one you have except get rid
> of the KW16, which is really out of place, since
> it’s btween two single ft guide, For example,
> KW30, KL20, KL12, to your KT runners.
> I also don’t like your non progressive spacing,
> the runners are too far apart, and the last
> reduction guide is too close to the choke guide.
> Your spacing is certainly not what I would use.
> Try using progressive spacing, not only will it
> look better but will also perform better..
> Hopefully, someone with more surf rod building
> experience than I will chime in and give their
> opinions.
> Norm

Thanks Norm
I’m beginning to see the errors of my ways... :-)

That train I show is basically a COF arrangement... I’ve pulled a line through the guides on the wrapper and the centers line up..
I should probably stop messing with it and just build it KR by the book...

Thanks for your input, very informative.... I’ll post back as it develops...

Guppy

There are a lot of surf rods being built using KR Concept these days but the default for any rod that big would be Fuji's original NGC (New Guide Concept). In that case, GPS for NGC would give you precise positions for KW or KL.

[anglersresource.net]

Jim Ising Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a lot of surf rods being built using KR
> Concept these days but the default for any rod
> that big would be Fuji's original NGC (New Guide
> Concept). In that case, GPS for NGC would give you
> precise positions for KW or KL.
>
> [anglersresource.net]
> re/

Thanks Jim
That was pretty much my original plan and may still go with it...

Now I'm planning on a KR mock up for a test drive... (cast? )

this is the one above
[www.striped-bass.com]


and this next
[www.striped-bass.com]


the way this is going I may not have this rod for the spring run.... LOL :-)

Guppy

Distance is the name of the game in surf casting. Which guide brand(s) /model/sizes/spacing has demonstrated the longest distance fishing [not competition] casts? I have found hearsay, especially from fishermen (grin), to be a poor source of credible information.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Distance is the name of the game in surf casting.
> Which guide brand(s) /model/sizes/spacing has
> demonstrated the longest distance fishing [not
> competition] casts? I have found hearsay,
> especially from fishermen (grin), to be a poor
> source of credible information.


And a bunch of other topics............ LOL

THANKS Phil

Guppy

I ordered a few blanks from CTS and had to pay a design fee since what I wanted wasn't offered by CTS . I have some 8 and 9 foot blanks , a few 11 footers and my latest are two 10'6 " surf specific blanks and after a ridiculous amount of testing and retesting I went with an RV 25 , RV 16 , KW10M to a KB 5 choke to KT 5 runners on the heavier rated model and a KL 25H , KL10H to a KL 5.5M with a KB5 as the choke and then KT5 runners. I don't like the KL25H with the KL12H pairing I much prefer the KL10H. Same thing with the double foot RV , I much prefer the KW10M over the KW12M and I would never use them together but I know many do .

Both layouts have proven to me to be the perfect sizing and spacing for my particular line choice and reel type . I never build rods to be used with different reels they're all built to work optimally with one very specific reel and line choice, Ray will find his ideal layout through trial and error i have no doubt . Don't forget Ray that most vendors to the left give adequate time to return guides that turn out to not work, just don't prep them because any modification will void the return option. Plenty of time to tape them up and test and if they don't fit what you want then exchange for something else.

chris c nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ordered a few blanks from CTS and had to pay a
> design fee since what I wanted wasn't offered by
> CTS . I have some 8 and 9 foot blanks , a few 11
> footers and my latest are two 10'6 " surf specific
> blanks and after a ridiculous amount of testing
> and retesting I went with an RV 25 , RV 16 , KW10M
> to a KB 5 choke to KT 5 runners on the heavier
> rated model and a KL 25H , KL10H to a KL 5.5M
> with a KB5 as the choke and then KT5 runners. I
> don't like the KL25H with the KL12H pairing I much
> prefer the KL10H. Same thing with the double
> foot RV , I much prefer the KW10M over the KW12M
> and I would never use them together but I know
> many do .
>
> Both layouts have proven to me to be the perfect
> sizing and spacing for my particular line choice
> and reel type . I never build rods to be used
> with different reels they're all built to work
> optimally with one very specific reel and line
> choice, Ray will find his ideal layout through
> trial and error i have no doubt . Don't forget
> Ray that most vendors to the left give adequate
> time to return guides that turn out to not work,
> just don't prep them because any modification will
> void the return option. Plenty of time to tape
> them up and test and if they don't fit what you
> want then exchange for something else.

Thanks Chris, some great info
I’ve been wondering about the return process,,, mud hole,,, my guide collection is getting out of hand ! .... :-)

Maybe, if permitted, I’ll post what I have and offer them here for a little $.....

Oh, question for anyone, I have a guide that looks like a Fuji KW to me, ( tangle free double foot ) and it’s about 70 mm in height, 20 or 30 maybe,.
I don’t see any guide like that with that height anywhere and wondering what it is...

Thanks again....

Guppy

The below are Fuji's KW double foots with size to the left and height in MM to the right.


30L- 50.4
30 - 61.2 MM
40L -60.2 MM
40 - 80.4. MM
50- 86.6 MM

SeaGuide does make high frame double foot guides.
[rodbuilderswarehouse.com]
Norm

chris c nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The below are Fuji's KW double foots with size to
> the left and height in MM to the right.
>
>
> 30L- 50.4
> 30 - 61.2 MM
> 40L -60.2 MM
> 40 - 80.4. MM
> 50- 86.6 MM

Ya
I have the height chart for Fuji guides and see nothing to 70 (+-) mm ...
Doesn’t matter, just curious,,,
A mind is a sad thing to lose... LOL
THANKS

Guppy