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Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Jeffrey D Rennert (---)
Date: January 27, 2021 01:25PM

I haven't read the article from Rod Maker Mag. yet ( I let my subscription expire, I have renewed), But after seeing the article i decided to share my experience. Kent and I started a friendship @2 months ago. This spawned from our passion to make everything perfect. He came to my house with a rod wrapped to his specs. I showed him my 6-8 versions. I started this acid wrap after reading this forum. I did a Tom K. version 0* to 180*, I did another version, Donald LaMar's -.5*/90*/180*, Then Norm's (thank you Norm for all you do here), 0/60*/120*180*. I had zero faith in Tom K.'s method, only to be shocked at it's smooth casting. The others casted well also. I decided on Norm's method, Now, with casting not an issue, why tinker with it? I've fished plastic worms for bass so long I've developed a twitch being so slow. But the one thing I had become accustom too was the torque generated when setting the hook, and these were serious try to remove their jaw hook sets, no braid then. The absolute second I set the hook with Kent's spiraled rod, I was in shock. Where was the twist, where was the reposition the reel in my hand moment? Kent is not paying me enough to embellish on the moment of truth hook set, I'm just sharing my experience. I've since caught bass on crank baits and experienced the same very smooth transition from fish to landing. I've since stripped two rods and plan on more. Forgive me if I was as long winded as Kent, haha.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2021 02:03PM by Jeffrey D Rennert.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: January 27, 2021 02:16PM

I no longer own a guides on top rod that isn't over 30 years old.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: January 27, 2021 02:35PM

I only went that way about 6 years ago. Haven't made a conventional baitcaster since. Well, maybe one or two, but everything for me; spiral.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 27, 2021 03:34PM

Sorry you had "zero faith" in my method, but you don't keep a "how-to" magazine going for 24 years by publishing methods that don't work. In later years, this was the method that Ralph O'Quinn moved to. Lots of good ones. Use the one that appeals to you.

............

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Jeffrey D Rennert (---)
Date: January 27, 2021 04:38PM

Tom, maybe it was a bad analogy. The point I was making wasn't about you!!! It was about having guides on the bottom of a bait caster and having it work!!! My phone number is 772-559-1540 if you'd like to have a conversation. Thank you for all you and the bloggers do . No way I could have come this far in rod building with out everyone's help.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 27, 2021 07:08PM

The line doesn't know where the guides are in relation to the rod blank.

.............

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: January 27, 2021 08:18PM

The photos of the Cagey Hook system tell a compelling story. I am certainly anxious to build one. Enthusiasm for one system isn’t a knock on any of the advancements that predated it. A system that might be better in some applications doesn’t devalue one that works great in others. I’ve had people improve on my career work and I have improved on that of others. Progress never stops and it should never erode the contributions of anyone. I am so glad that the carbon covered foam grips were developed. They have become my favorite type. I’ll be putting one on my first Cagey Hook rod.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 27, 2021 09:25PM

I appreciate hearing some of you are willing to try something new- Jeff and Kendall. You two will be the first based on the new article Tom and I worked on for his December 2020 issue of Rod Maker magazine.

Jeff is already working on it all by himself on his own by simply trying to replicate the system on 2 of his rods he is redoing by observing the rod I gave him as a sample. And it is not a super simple guide alignment to master either... to get it right at maximum efficiency. I wish I could have worked with Jeff on those 2 rods, but he went for it on his own and I still have not seen the results yet.

And Kendall you are exactly right. My work efforts on trying to improve the line flow under load of spiral wrapping fishing rods is an extension from the work efforts- that I know of- of Ralph O'Quinn and Don Morton. And more distantly Chuck Roberts, and even old John Scanlan and his 1909 patented idea which was predetermined fixed ideas of where the guides should be placed on a rod with no regard for how that rod bends.

When I began spiral wrapping rods over 25 years ago, 26 now, I started off with all the same ideas everyone else was working with and I just was not satisfied with the results.

So I spent years working through each step of spiral wrapping and what could I do to improve line flow under load while still observing the set of rules as guidelines as established by Don Morton which are found on this very forum from 20 years ago:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

"Re: Robert's Wrap
Posted by: Don Morton (---.localaccess.net)
Date: August 25, 2001 11:11PM

Tony, the term Robert's wrap was coined by a rod builder from FL. by the name of Joy Dunlap. Joy found out about the wrap from a fellow rod builder by the name of Roberts thus Robert's wrap. Actually the process was patented by John Scanlan in 1909. The term Robert's wrap/spiral wrap and many other names refer to the process of spiraling the line around the rod from the reel on top of the rod to the tip guides on the bottom of the rod. There are many ways to achieve this task. Originally, the line was moved to the bottom of the rod in 6 to 8 inches using 4 or more guides. A more common approach now seem to use a some what normal guide spacing and a longer distance around the rod. Regardless of the technique used to move the line around the rod a couple of points should be considered. First the line should flow as straight as possible from the reel to the tip in any fishing position. Second the line should make as small an angle as possible at each guide. Third the line should touch only the top or bottom of each guide. Forth the line should get around the rod before the curve or bend in the rod when fishing. Fifth the line should move through the guides with out vibrating when casting. If these criteria are followed the wrap will be fine regardless of the technique used to move the line around the rod."

At the time I was writing the article, I referenced this same set of rules, but did not know their origins until I began digging into this forum's older posts on spiral wrapping rods. Now I know the author is Don Morton of Alabama. I had found his same set of rules published in a book I had found at the rod and reel repair shop I use to work at before this pandemic hit. The book I referenced was compiled in 2007 or 2008. And above in Don Morton's post I find the precise exact same set of rules, written identically, and in the same order as the book would have them some 7 years later, yet in the book they are not credited to Don Morton, but the post above clearly shows he had to be the original source but worked with other custom rod builders like Pat Vin Zant and Terry Cheatham for the final compilation I had come across and used. And here is the text of the rules I used to develop my own way of spiral wrapping bass fishing rods:

1. The line should run as straight as possible from the reel to the tip of the rod.
2. The line should form as small of an angle as possible with each guide.
3. The line should touch only the top or bottom of the guides in any fishing position.
4. The line should pass through the guides with no line chatter or vibration.
5. The line should not touch or pass the rod in any fishing position, casting or retrieving.
6. The rod should be balanced.
7. The rod should be stable in all fishing positions.
8. The rod should track in all fishing positions without experiencing torque or twisting.

So, basically, what makes a Cagey Hook Wrap different than older methods is I stretched out the "spiral wrap" to now use more than 50% and even 60% of a rod blank's length. And I used the 2 dimensional shape of the rod blank to help me get the line past the rod blank.

What I mean is this... if you are holding a rod in your hands, holding it out in front of you looking down on it in 2 dimensional, you are looking at a long triangle. Widest on your handle or butt end, but tapers down to an almost point out at the far end. It is a simple triangle shape in 2 dimensional form. So rather than force the line to flow around the widest end of the rod blank, I used the tapering shape of the rod to get the rod blank out of the way of line flowing past it further out as it tapers down some. I used the physics of the rod's shape itself to my advantage in flowing the line past the blank.

In the past, dating back to Scanlan's original patented idea, most spiral wrapped rods have all been right out of the gate so to speak. Line leaves the reel and next is the race to get it around the blank as fast as possible where the rod blank is thickest leading to a breaking of the list of rules above- and line flow not being straight, line flow redirecting, side loading of guides, angular bends in line flow through the spiral transition guides, etc. All issues I worked hard to eliminate.

And the only way to do this was to throw out the older methods of spiral wrapping and rethink it over many long years of trial and error leading to the stretching out of the spiral transition to more than 50% and even 60% of the rod blank's length, no longer doing all of the transition right in front of the reel at thickest portion of the blank in as short a distance as possible as the older methods did.

Some other characteristics of my method of spiral wrapping a bass fishing rod is to use the unique bend characteristics of each rod blank and incorporate it into the overall physics of the spiral wrap itself. You can't really do this if spiral wrapping the thickest portion of the blank where it bends the least.

What I do is align my spiral wrap guides to the desired degree of rod loading I choose, which for my bass fishing rods is a standard 90 degree load position, so that as my rod loads up with a fish on the line, my spiral wrapped guides are actually moving into the most ideal alignment possible.

And I even incorporate how a fisherman holds the rod and the little bit of tip twisting I use to my advantage to twist into the spiral wrapped side to further aid the most ideal alignment of guides as is possible for under load situation to try and meet the rule book as much as is physically possible. Bringing all of this together is a bit tricky and is definitely a learned science and a learned art and is adaptable across a wide range of rods and gives me consistent results on 5 foot rods and 8 foot rods and everything in between. I am not sure if this method is adaptable to saltwater heavier rods because those load and bend differently and older spiral wrap methods may work better on them. I just don't know because I have never done any of those rods to know.

But here is my Cagey Hook Wrap method in a poorly hand drawn image to kind of show the difference between older methods usually accomplished in 2 feet or less of rod blank length, and where I am at with it today, and then below this I will show some finished examples of my line flow under load on my rods...



This is how it looks on a rod... this one is a 7' MH fast action rod. Notice line flow from reel is ruler straight from the reel through the 180 degree spiral transition, sails past the rod because of its natural tapering shape, flows straight through the transition guides according to the rule book at either the top center or bottom center of the guides, no side loading at all through the transition guides, and is perfectly aimed straight into the entry point of the 180's underneath based on this rod's unique bend:



I honestly do not see how I can straighten line flow under load any more perfectly straight than this. To me this is as good as it gets with the limitations of the materials. Oh, and yes reel height off the rod blank is crucial to dialing it in perfectly. Change reel height and it will throw it off slightly. Not enough to really affect performance though.

Here is my deceased father's full custom 6' rod that is now closer to 40 years old. It is so old its decorative wrap is covered in now brown varnish. My dad put it aside because his reel seat came loose and the rod was unusable. So he died in 2011 and I inherited it and fully restored it, and turned it into a Cagey Hook Wrap- named based on line flow shape under load... again, notice perfectly straight line flow past blank through entire transition and right into the entry point of the 180's. And line flow is either in top center or bottom center of transition guides. No side loading! No angular bends in the transition guides.



Here is a MudHole 7'3" MHX gen 1 rod super fast action, and results are consistently applied. Perfectly ruler straight line flow past blank through transition into entry point of 180's,



Here is a 7'6" BlackOut rod converted into a Cagey Hook Wrap...



These consistent results tell the story. Perfected line flow under load. Ruler straight line flow through entire 180 degree transition. No side loading of any guides. No angular bends through transition. What more can we ask of a spiral wrapped fishing rod? I just do not see how I can get the line any straighter than this. And that is what a Cagey Hook Wrap is. A new way of doing an old idea.

Some of the details which are in the article is learning where to aim the straight line path. How to find this aim spot on a blank, and that all 180's are not really all 180's! And, out where my "spiral wrap" is happening, on a straight rod, the line flow has a slight spiral to it, but as rod loads up, the line flow straightens out as guides align themselves and the spiral shape is transferred to the rod blank which now takes on the curved shape allowing guides to align under load and straighten line flow under load when it matters most.

And you can not get these results from using any predetermined fixed ideas on how and where to place guides like -5, -10, 0, 20, 35, 65, 90, 135 etc. None of those apply here. Rather than the rod builder getting these predetermined one size fits all ideas fixed into their head and then impose them on the rod, it is best to let the rod and line flow show the rod builder where the transition should take place, and where the guides should be at and at what angles based on what the materials tell the rod builder. Not the other way around. Listen to the materials. Not some guy online! lol! Its true. I had to stop listening to others and shut them out so I could get into the materials and let them guide me to the ultimate spiral wrapped rods that I could like and could be satisfied with, especially when a fish grabs the bait and the fight is on is when rods with guide systems like this come alive! And work!

This is not granddad's spiral wrapped rod method that's for sure! This is new age!


ADDED: I have been told that my photos make it appear as though the stripper guides are a long way from the reels. And it is merely a trick of the photography. The commercial average used today on many bass fishing rods is around 20 inches. All of my rods are within this same distance, except the MHX rod which is closer to 23". So nothing abnormal there really.

Another secret detail I have added over the years... Does X mark the spot or not? There is a spot in all spiral wrapped rods where the line crosses the blank from the top side to the underside. And there is an X marks the spot. But how do you handle this spot is the secret detail. In many older methods someone would say put a guide right there to keep the line off the blank. But is this really the best way to do it? As you can see from my rods above, I have moved past this old idea and do not use a guide at X marks the spot. I now rather keep my line flow perfectly straight with no side redirecting of line flow with a 90 degree bumper guide. I rather use a guide before and after X marks the spot and balance the function between those 2. Superior results.

Putting a guide at X marks the spot will not diminish performance really, but it is less than ideal and always bugged me so I eliminated it on my rods and love them even more now. And the images above show the line crossing the blank and no guide at the X spot. Gone!

And the images above show by the under load line flow, there is absolutely zero torquing of the blank. Not possible with line flow like this through the guides. None of the guides are being used as a torquing lever. It is just not happening here. So the rods perform flawlessly.

And the images above also show that the line flow under load is not pulling sideways on the reel far enough for there to ever be any line stacking at all. In 26 years of doing this, I have never experienced line stacking on any of my reels or any of the reels I have used. Does not happen. Not an issue. And certainly not worth adding not one degree to the 180 degree transition to compensate for it like those who insist on going negative on the stripper guide to -1 to -10 degrees. Not necessary and defeats the ideal line flow shown here. Honestly, I have never built a spiral wrapped rod with a negative stripper guide placement. Why? In order to do such compensating, I would need to observe physical evidence of a problem needing correcting and I've never seen it so why compensate for something that is not there?

And about those 180's... I let the rod tell me where they go. Most don't consider this point. They rush the spiral right out of the gate in as short of rod length as possible and simply fill out the rest of the rod with all 180's to the tip.

Don't work on a Cagey Hook Wrap. My spiral transition is happening further out so on my rods 180's have a definitive starting point- which is in the article. But even this is NOT carved in stone. Because my spiral wrap transition takes place further out, another detail that has been left out of 111 years of spiral wrapping is uncovered here for the first time ever. All 180's are NOT all 180's! Another secret detail I had to uncover and then unlock as I noticed my line flow was not perfectly straight going into the 180's. I noticed an angular bend in the line on the first 180 and so the materials taught me the tail end of the spiral wrap has to be included in the spiral. There are 2 ends to a spiral. Most concentrate on one end. So another key detail on my Cagey Hook Wraps is those first couple of 180's are not true 180's. Its in the article...

And more details... which side to spiral wrap to? Well, I can tell you it is not determined by how a rod lays on a boat deck like some experts claimed in a recent video on YT telling the whole world. And they even go on to say its not done for any performance reasons. That is pure hogwash. I mean who builds rods for how they lay on a boat deck? Seriously? I build custom rods for pure performance only. To @#$%& with how they lay on deck. If not happy with that then turn it over. Ya know? Those same experts also advised and instructed everyone to make their spiral wrapped rods have line flow through the spiral transition guides that look like this:



Directly contradicting the "rules" shown above... and these guys are experts! Telling everyone to side load all transition guides 90 degrees off from the rule book! Unreal!

To me, spiral wrapped rods are spiraled to the side which works best according to how the fisherman is holding the rod when loaded up with a fish on the end of the line. Who holds a rod perfectly vertical during their fight with a fish? Almost no one does. Pay attention sometime to your rod when a fish is on the line. And watch how you use the rod. It is this that determines which side to spiral to. Pure performance. One way around the rod blank works best to your advantage because of pure physics, while spiral wrapping to the other side works against you. Simple as that. 2 choices. One works best. One works least and against you. Simple. Use the side that works to your advantage. And, for a Cagey Hook Wrap, spiral to the side of the rod blank the reel's handle is on because of how the fisherman holds the rod during the battle with the fish. Use physics of this event to help align the guides better, not worse as I show in the article. Performance is the reason why- contrary to the YT experts.

Some ask about casting these rods... well, think about this... I spent all my time and efforts straightening line flow. So with line flowing down that blank to the tip, it is as straight as I can get it. So casting is not inhibited in any way. They cast great. No doubt about it.

I wish my dad were around to use his old rod now! Hopefully he's smiling down on the grandsons he never got to know as they use it and catch fish on it.

I find it hard to believe sometimes that custom rods built up until now in 2021 were still using the same precise guide placement angles found in John Scanlan's 1909 patent without much changed in all of those 112 years with few considering rod bend properties included. Change has finally come for us spiral wrappers...





Edited 23 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2021 11:10AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 08:09AM

Here is an interesting rod... I purchased 2 of these rods which were identical in every detail. Both are full custom rods built in Texas by a custom rod builder back in the mid 1980's on G.Loomis blanks. Both of these rods belonged to and were used by an old retired tournament bass fisherman who is now deceased. I bought them when he was no longer able to fish so he sold all his stuff and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. So I bought both of his prized custom spiral wrapped rods.

For me, these rods were wrapped to the right side of the blank and did not "fit" the way I fished and so I always knew I was going to strip them down and spiral wrap them my way on the left side of the blank. But I want to show you how these rods are spiral wrapped which is close to a Cagey Hook Wrap, but this particular rod builder did not take into account incorporating the spiral transition to work in tandem with the unique bend of the rod.

If you follow the line flow under an approximate 90 degree load you can see it flows through the transition guides well and then makes an angular turn towards the 180's.

This type of spiral wrap is what I now call an undershot spiral wrap. He missed the correct aiming spot on this rod for the guides he chose to use which are taller than my choice of micro guides. So I have added to this image a red line showing how I would turn this spiral wrap into a Cagey Hook Wrap using this rod's unique bend by moving up the aim spot which is at the end of the red line closest to the tip. But keep in mind this aim spot is only for the guides as found on this rod. Once I remove them and change to micro guides the red line flow aim will move closer to the blank.

A spiral wrapped rod built like this Texas rod was made works just fine, but is it ideal and the most efficient it could be? In my world it is not which is why I worked hard to further straighten out line flow by taking into account each rod's unique bend and using it to my advantage in line flow under load.

So you can see in this image I would have to move the 3 transition guides and the first 180 guide to match the red line to correct the under load line flow on this rod, but I would actually eliminate one of these guides, more than likely the middle transition guide 2nd out from the reel and be done with it.

This rod as built is a classic case of line flow redirecting away from its natural under load straight flow path. This is the price we pay for imposing on the materials the one size fits all blanks with predetermined fixed ideas rather than letting the materials teach us what is most ideal.

Even though this rod builder undershot the correct aim for this rod blank, I have to give him credit for at least trying to follow the Don Morton rules as well as he could. Notice the line flow through his transition guides does flow at the bottom center of the guides. Kudos for that being right on the money.





Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2021 08:23AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 28, 2021 08:25AM

Simple spiral works fine, piece of cake to lay it out.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 08:28AM

I left simple spiral wrapping behind 26 years ago and never looked back. This method is about advanced spiral wrapping to create the "ultimate" and "exceptional" and "fantastic" performance possible. This method is about guides aligning themselves under load to straighten out line flow under load.

John Scanlan's patented idea from way back in 1909, 112 years ago is more advanced than today's simple spiral that I want no part of today in 2021:



Now let's get into spiral wrap polarity and why... I'll show the images first and discuss it after... but for now for this part of the discussion, I am taking one of my rods and side loading them to approximately the 90 degree position sideways. I want to show how the line flow changes under load by showing these 2 extremes which will almost never be experienced to this degree under normal fishing.





I hold my rods in my right hand when fighting a fish. And as such when I work a fish into me the rod is held to the right and the fish is usually worked in to me on the left side of the blank creating a slight side loading to the left side.

So to improve performance, I spiral wrap the side where my load is going to be located the most. I want the tip guides pulled towards the side of the spiral wrap because this pulls the line away from the blank, and creates a more spinning rod like line flow.

If I were to reverse this and spiral wrap to the wrong side of the blank for how I fish, or to the right side, notice how the guides are now not moving into a more ideal alignment but actually moving further out of alignment causing increased angular bends in the line flow under load, and pulling the line into the blank, and even show a second time the line flow under load crossed the blank underneath.

One way works to my advantage while the other way works against me. Simply spiral wrap to your inside, or on the same side of the rod blank as the reel's handle is on.

Building these more advanced spiral wrapped rods is a balancing act based around a perfectly straight up and down load of any degree you choose for the rod you choose to build on. So when perfectly balanced, using a straight vertical load, the line flow under load will flow in the top center or bottom center of the stripper guide and as the rod is loaded up and pulled to one side or the other it is normal for the line to ride up one side or the other of the stripper guide. This is the nature of the beast and can not be avoided.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2021 09:40AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 28, 2021 09:50AM

Just to clarify, the "Simple Spiral" has only been around for about 15 years.

.............

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 10:04AM

Kent,
Great work, great pictures and the theory all makes sense.

Now for the question.

When using two identical rod blanks and reels and grips but with different guide layout.

Rod one uses the guide layout that you have just described.

Rod two use a simple spiral guide layout.

Can you articulate in a few words, the difference that a user of each rod in a day of fishing to let readers know what they are likely to experience with a day of fishing using the system you have documented?

Yes, I understand the theory and I can observe the pictures of line flow. But, now when a person picks up a rod that has been wrapped using your method and fishes the rod hard for a week to land several hundred fish - what will the fisherman have experienced compared to his using the other rod for a week to land the same number of fish?

i.e. theory and pictures are fine. But, what does the person experience when using the two different rods?

Both rods are going to cast a lure and both rods are going to catch equal numbers of fish - but will the fisherman be actually able to tell the difference after catching a few hundred fish over the course of a given period of time between the two guide wrapping styles?

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 10:15AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to clarify, the "Simple Spiral" has only been
> around for about 15 years.
>

lol! Tom, that one idea may be only 15 years old, but to me, I lump all of the various 'old-method' spiral wrap ideas into the category of "simple spiral wraps."

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 10:20AM

roger wilson Wrote:

> i.e. theory and pictures are fine. But, what does
> the person experience when using the two different
> rods?
>

Thanks Roger!

And yes, I'll try and keep it to a few words this time.

Simply put it all goes back to the whole reasons why we build spiral wrapped rods in the first place. The first one is obvious to eliminate torquing of blank. But the main one is the reduction of line flow friction through the guides when loaded. The higher the load, the more resistance there is to pulling line through the entire guide train. Straighten out the line flow, and you reduce the friction and resistance to that line flow making reeling in a fish much easier. So its less work.

So it helps to reduce muscle fatigue more than anything else. It is also easier on the line and guides, but reducing line flow friction really is of benefit most to the angler and not getting tired or fatigued as quickly from having to work harder to overcome the increased line flow resistance and friction in the guide train.

When it is easier to reel in a fish, you are not fighting with the equipment near as much and enjoyment levels can go up considerably as well as satisfaction levels for having higher performance equipment in your hands.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2021 11:12AM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 11:13AM

So, if I read through the lines --
The "new" system does not necessarily allow the fisherman to cast any further or with more accuracy or to catch and release more fish?

But, the "new" system lets a person be more rested at the end of a 12 hour fishing day?

Thanks much.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Dennis Danku (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: January 28, 2021 11:19AM

Kent, What would the outcome be if someone was to put a right handed reel on your rod?

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 11:28AM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, if I read through the lines --
> The "new" system does not necessarily allow the
> fisherman to cast any further or with more
> accuracy or to catch and release more fish?
>
> But, the "new" system lets a person be more rested
> at the end of a 12 hour fishing day?
>
> Thanks much.

That is exactly right Roger. There is no way I can claim my method will outcast conventional guide system, and no way to claim my method of rod construction will catch more fish. Accuracy is up to the angler.

My whole purpose behind working for years to create this method was to simply improve upon an idea that has remained virtually unchanged for over a century. I was never satisfied with my line zig zagging around through the spiral guides side loading them and not running straight with angular bends or line turns through the guides. I kept at it trying to improve line flow under load to simply improve upon the physics of line flow under load dynamics to its highest level of performance within the limitations of the materials I was working with.

Reducing that line flow resistance and straightening out its flow path helps the angler more than anything else. Helps makes casting easier so the angler does not have to exert as much energy or muscle effort to overcome the angular bends of line flow through transition guides, and helps reduce the amount of energy required for reeling in a fish, so yes, using a rod with my guide system on it is geared towards making fishing easier and with less effort and less energy spent lending to more enjoyment of fishing as I see it and possibly for a longer period of time.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: January 28, 2021 11:34AM

Dennis Danku Wrote:
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> Kent, What would the outcome be if someone was to
> put a right handed reel on your rod?

This...



It would still work, but it would not be as efficient. The way you hold the rod and work a fish into you is pulling the rod away from the spiral side and causing increased angular bends of line flow through the transition guides and increasing line flow resistance under load. Casting would not be affected, but the line flow under load certainly would be.

Dialing it in for the way you fish would be better served if your guides went around the right side of the blank or same side as the reel handle.

It would look like this but on the other side of the blank for your right handed reel.



This is one of the major drawbacks for companies trying to make spiral wrapped rods commercially. They usually only wrap to one side and then do not tell you about how it works better for lefties or righties and works against those who do as you suggest and use a reel with the handle on the opposite side of the spiral wrap. You never hear this from them! Spiralite and others only tout the benefits but never the drawbacks.

I won't use spiral wrapped rods to the right side. It just does not "feel" right. I prefer it when everything comes together for how I fish, and I'd want the same for you so your custom spiral wrapped rods should match how you fish as well. Don't settle on performance loss.

And I'll add that in all honesty, the loss of efficiency and loss of performance would be barely perceptible if at all. You might not even notice it which is precisely what the companies who make these rods commercially is banking on. But in custom rod building, we have the advantage to dial them in perfectly for our way of fishing to achieve the ultimate efficiency and performance factor you can not get with off the shelf rods.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2021 12:25PM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Cagey Hook Wrap Method
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 28, 2021 12:53PM

Fighting a big fish [6+ lbs.] with spiral-wrapped guides puts a lot of torque all in one direction on a rod blank. Would it be better to spiral guides halfway down the blank in one direction, then spiral guides in the opposite direction down the rest of the rod to ease the torsion on the blank?

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