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Pages: 123Next
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Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: December 10, 2020 07:43PM

I wonder what are the three most common false beliefs or conclusions held by rod builders about building rods?

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 10, 2020 08:04PM

1. The spine affects a rod's fishability.

2. High modulus graphite is inherently brittle.

3. Smooth handles are slippery by nature.

3. (a) Fiberglass rods cannot be built to have the same action and power as a graphite rod. (Natural frequency and weight will obviously be different.)

These would probably be my best estimates. I'm sure Tom has some insight into this question.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Robert Ford (---)
Date: December 10, 2020 08:44PM

Number one is that you'll save money. HA!!

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 10, 2020 10:58PM

Joe Vanfossen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. The spine affects a rod's fishability.
>
> 2. High modulus graphite is inherently brittle.
>
> 3. Smooth handles are slippery by nature.
>
> 3. (a) Fiberglass rods cannot be built to have the
> same action and power as a graphite rod. (Natural
> frequency and weight will obviously be
> different.)
>
> These would probably be my best estimates. I'm
> sure Tom has some insight into this question.


I think you have very well outlined perhaps the most common misconceptions about fishing rods in general.

...............

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: December 11, 2020 12:27AM

1.) You have to have a PHD in physics.

2.) You have to be a certified professional master craftsman.

3) As Robert said "that you'll save money. HA!!"


I like Joe's response.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2020 12:33AM by John DeMartini.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 11, 2020 02:05AM

1) That lighter is always better.

2) That the rod blank is more important than the guide train.

3) And not really a rod builder thing, but that braided line makes a rod more sensitive.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---)
Date: December 11, 2020 06:29AM

I'm not sure I agree with the cost observation. I built a 7 weight BX3 fly rod for %450.00 a few years back. To purchase that rod from Winston would have cost me close to $10000.00. I can build any number of high quality rods for half the price of purchasing from from the manufacturer, and that includes CTS, NFC, RodGeeks, Winston, etc.

That being said, I can purchase an Ugly Stick with reel combo for around $45 that will catch fish nicely.

Tight lines and frisky fish

RJF

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: david taylor (---)
Date: December 11, 2020 10:35AM

4. Fly rod guides should be tapered in a series of up to five decending sized guides.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Tony Boschi (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: December 11, 2020 11:21AM

1. Chicks dig it.

2. Putting finish on is always easy.

3. Every rod blank from the same lot is exactly the same.

Tony Boschi
Banana River Rods
Merritt Island, Florida
321~525~1063

* Rapid Prototyping Services
* Custom Beach Rods
* Custom Inshore Rods

[bananariverrods.com]

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Danny Smith (---)
Date: December 11, 2020 05:23PM

I'm sorry if this response is not exactly appropriate for this thread, but being a newbie with a few months of education on building I thought it mattered where you put the guides in relation to the spine. Is this a myth or are you referring to how it will fish, not what's technically better. Or is it not technically better?

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: December 11, 2020 05:43PM

Grabbing a bag of popcorn! This'll be good!

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 11, 2020 06:20PM

Danny Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sorry if this response is not exactly
> appropriate for this thread, but being a newbie
> with a few months of education on building I
> thought it mattered where you put the guides in
> relation to the spine. Is this a myth or are you
> referring to how it will fish, not what's
> technically better. Or is it not technically
> better?

There was never any evidence that spine orientation greatly affected rod performance in any way. It certainly doesn't prevent rod twist in conventional cast rods, nor does it reduce breakage (actually increases that by lessening the maximum deadlift load a blank is capable of).

This RodMaker article may be interesting to you: [www.rodbuilding.org]

............

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 11, 2020 06:25PM

Danny, this is a topic that will draw a heated debate from both sides.

Before going much further, take a minute and read this article, from the Library on this site, related to a spiral wrap demo device:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

At the heart of the spiral wrap demo is essentially the same piece of equipment that Mud Hole sells as a spine finder. So, for a little cash, you can get one to tinker with without having to source parts and build one.

Now, let's perform, as Einstein called them, a gedanken.

You have a tubular composite shaft that you intend to flex. By the nature of the way that these composites are made by wrapping a cloth around a mandrel, there are going to be variations in material thickness, resulting in a stiffest axis, and a softest axis (side opposite of the 'spine'). When flexing these shafts by loading the tip alone, the shaft will seek the orientation resulting in the least amount of energy stored in the shaft, i.e. the configuration of minimum potential. When you test for the spine, you are looking for this axis, and it is easy to locate, as the rod will 'snap' into that orientation as your rotate it under load. This is the evidence that gets cited by those who build relative to the spine. However, there are debates among this group of builders about whether the weakest axis should go on the bottom of the rod or the top. Many settle on the spine being on top and the softest axis on the bottom.

Pause for a minute. How often do you load the rod this way while fishing?

Unless you are using a rod with the line attached directly to the tip top, i.e. a cane pole or a tenkara rod, a golf club, or a cat toy the answer is: Never! You load the rod by using a line that passes through a set of guides attached to the blank. This is fundamentally different than loading the rod only by contacting two points on the rod, i.e. the tip and the butt. Now we will take our rod blank, and tape a fishing reel to it, as well as a set of guides. It doesn't matter which reel you choose, it can be a spinning reel, casting reel, or a fly reel. Next, tape up a set of guides. On our first test we will place the guides on the softest axis, pass the line through the guides and tie the line to a weight. Now, place the blank in your spine finder, what happens? The rod flexes along the axis where you found the spine with the spine of top. Now you might say, "Hey, maybe there is something to that spine thing!"

In the words of Lee Corso, "Not so fast, my friend!" Our next experiment is going to be place those guides and the reel on an axis that is, say 45 degrees away from the spine. This is an arbitrary angle not tied to the spine, weakest axis, or stiffest axis (which typically doesn't correspond to the spine). Put it in the spine finder, and what happens? The rod will rotate and flex in a curve that has the line at the bottom of the curve. The reason that this happens is that the line is interacting with the blank by using the guides. The guides will apply a torque to the rod, as the line seeks to get to the bottom of the rod, as that is that is where the load is located.

Let's perform a third variation of this experiment. This time, you are going to set up a casting rod in a traditional guides on top configuration. You can even place them on the spine, as many will tell you that the softest axis of the rod should go on the bottom. Again, run your line through the guides and tie on a weight. Have a friend hold the rod while you inspect it. What happens here, well the line passes through the first couple of guides closest to the reel with them on top of the rod, but as you get closer to the tip, you notice that the rod twists with the guides seeking to get where they 'want' to be, on the bottom of the rod, as this will be the configuration of least potential when the rod is loaded at multiple points with the line passing through the guides.

You can perform a final experiment with a rod built with the stiffest axis on the bottom of the rod. Being the hardest axis to flex against, it should be nearly impossible to make this axis "want" to be on the bottom of the rod. Set up your casting rod, but let's do a spiral wrap. Since we aren't fishing with this rod, we'll go extreme. Place the first guide from the reel on top, and the rest on the bottom. Run the line through the guides and tie on a weight. What happens? In this configuration, even fighting the stiffest axis on the rod, your rod will remain upright with the casting reel sitting on top.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2020 06:27PM by Joe Vanfossen.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 11, 2020 07:04PM

1) A Spiral wrapped rod will cast farther than conventional casting layout.
2) My girlfriend: I love to fish. (Later you marry her and she starts saying: All you want to do is fish and make fishing rods.)

Danny,
The guides make the rod bend the way it is going to bend and not the spine.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Danny Smith (---)
Date: December 12, 2020 03:33PM

Thanks for the responses. I almost put in my question that a yes or no would suffice. :) This makes perfect sense. This also tells me that the guides are an extremely important, if not the most important component on the rod.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 12, 2020 08:26PM

Guides are no more important than the blank, good guides on a por blank, makes a poor rod! Obviously both are very important, and should be carefully matched to their intended use.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 12, 2020 09:11PM

I definitely don't agree that good guides on a poor blank, makes a poor rod. But I dang sure know that poor guides on a good blank can make a poor rod.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 12, 2020 10:10PM

David, remember, all of us are only expressing opinions, not facts.

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: December 13, 2020 05:13AM

Mr Erickson ....... point taken. lol

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Re: Fact vs Fiction
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: December 13, 2020 06:53AM

Is that a fact..lol.

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