So in reading about rods and having fished different rods, the term “balance” comes up up a lot. “ The rod balances right in front of the reel seat”, “this rod is tip heavy”, etc. I would assume one of the big benefits of custom rod building is making sure your rod balances well.
I would assume a builder could temporarily fit the components on a rod, attach a reel, and move the components so the rod balances well. Does this sound logical?

Thanks in advance.

Perfectly.

Yes, but in practice "balance" doesn't always work out that way. The weight of the lure or line or even the technique used may dictate that the rod should balance somewhere other than what you would think of as being "neutral." Some builders simply build the rod as light as possible and let balance fall where it may.

..............

There are a number of things to consider, (handle length) but you're certainly getting off on the right foot. Everything's a tradeoff.

i don,t want my casts to feel like a hammer throw..lol.

Good points fellas. I definitely better take into account the technique and weight used. I know I won’t get it perfect, but thought I better think about that a little since I hear so much about it. Thanks!!

Since most blanks are heavy enough to make the rod assembly built to normal dimensions tip heavy, the way to put it into balance is to move the reel out from the butt toward the tip.. Go a little too far and you have the problem of the butt catching on clothing.

If you are designing for balance go as short as possible, as high mod as possible (to get the highest stiffness per unit of weight), as light as possible of everything in front of the reel, which means lightest guides, lightest wraps, possibly no fore grip, and usually as light as possible on the reel. The stuff near the reel has little effect compared to the stuff out farther, especially the top 3rd or quarter of the rod's length.

I do like Tom mentions, build as light as possible with the ergonomics I want for fishing, and let the balance go where it goes.

Keep in mind too that as you move the reel out you will be affecting casting performance both one handed and two handed. I think this is what Ben is referring to.

It would be a good experiment to wrap a rod with all the guides then tape on reel seat components in various locations and note how the fishing parameters change with location.

Shawn,
I like to have a balanced rod, so that when I hold my rod in the normal fishing position with no weight of a lure or anything else on the tip - the rod is essentially level.

I use light guides to assist in the balance equation. In past times, I would aid in balancing a long rod with a short handle. However, I disliked the additional weight of the rod.

As a result, for a very long rod that will not balance with a short handle is built with a handle that is long enough so that the rod balances correctly.

Yes, I know that a lot of folks preach to make the handle the length that you want and live with the rod balance But, for myself - the rod balance and overall light weight of the rod is more important than a short handle that some folks prefer.

Best wishes and build the rod in a way and a matter that suits you, and or your customer if you are building the rod for someone else.

Great advice and more to think about and play with. I can see how this hobby drops you down the proverbial rabbit hole!!

I know this has been talked about a ton, but what guides do you find to work well and are light and firm enough to make a balanced and great rod. I fish for LM and SM bass. I use braid for some and fluoro for others if that makes a difference.

Thanks again from the rabbit hole.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

balance is also easily changed by changing your hand position on the rod..this is easy when fly fishing by simply moving your hand on the foregrip and it only need be an inch or two and make a big diifference in how the rod feels..i do this with my cast rods by building in a four inch foregrip to make the rod feel more or less tip light, whatever the technique requires simply by moving my hand on the foregrip..

I try and use the components and their position to get the rod as close to balanced as possible. Rarely will you get the balance perfect. Depending on your preference for certain aspects of the rod such as handle length the balance could be way off. Fortunately nearly all out of balance situations will be a tip heavy rod. You can add weight to the butt to balance the rod out.

Some people are against this as they want a rod as light as possible. A heavier balanced will be less fatiguing to fish than a light unbalanced rod. I balance my rods so they in essence float in my hand. There is no effort required to hold the rod in a just slightly above level position of the tip.

Great advice fellas. I assume I can always add weight later to the butt of the rod?

There are butt systems out there that will allow you to add or remove weight as you wish.

Lynn, Thanks, I will check those out.

IMO, the only rod and reel combinations you need to worry about their degree of balance, are rods used for slack and semi slack line techniques where the rod is fished tip up, and you're trying to feel the bite. I say degree of balance because some people like a neutrally balanced rod and reel combination, while others prefer a tip light rod and reel combination. I prefer a tip light rod and reel combination. A tip light rod aids in bite detection, and it is less fatiguing on the smaller muscle groups of the hand, wrist, and forearm, and it aids in the ease and accuracy of presentations like flipping and pitching.

Like Micheal Sutheimer above, I have zero problems adding weight to the butt of a rod to get the degree of balance I prefer. And I add it inside the butt of the blank. As far as component choices goes ... of course lighter guides are going to add less weight in front of the reel seat, but I wouldn't sacrifice the number of guides you might use, simply in the name of balance. If you'd normally build a rod with 10 guides, building it with 9 guides isn't going to make much of a difference in balance point, but it could make a difference in protecting the blank if the blank is put in a compromising position while fighting or landing a fish. Reel seat weight has little if any affect on a rod and reel's balance point. And reel weight, unless the difference between one reel and another is drastic, has very little affect on rod and reel balance as well. I, and pretty much every other experienced bass fisherman I know, actually hold the rod at it's reel seat. Either palming the reel if using a bait caster, or holding the reel seat if using a spinning rod. Weight at or close to the pivot point (the reel seat) just doesn't have that much affect on balance.

As far as positioning the reel seat goes, some advocate pushing the reel seat further from the butt to aid in balancing a rod and reel combination. And while it certainly will work, it is IMO a very inefficient way of doing so. Of course it depends on the individual build, but I have done experiments with reel seat placement and one might have to move the reel seat 2" or more to really have a substantial affect on a rod and reel's balance point. Personally, I feel that reel seat placement should be based solely on the ability of using the rod. Too long of a handle can make a rod difficult to use. And a rod that is difficult to use, is a rod that doesn't get used. At least in my boat. And I'm not going to build a rod I won't use,

And yes, you can always add weight later to the butt of the rod. As for myself, if I am building a rod that I want to balance for the rod and reel I am using on it, I completely build the rod. The only thing I don't finish, is gluing on the butt cap. I'll then mount the reel I'll be using, (filled with line) in the reel seat. I run line through the guides and pull enough line out so it touches the floor when holding the rod in the position I will hold it while working the bait. I then tape weight to the butt of the rod until I get the degree of balance I prefer. I use two different methods of installing the weights in the butt of the blank. Which method I use depends on the ID of the blank's butt, and the OD of the weights I'm using. I use tungsten weights because of their size to weight ratio. If I have the room I use a polyurethane foam reel seat arbor that I sand down to fit inside the butt of the blank, and I then ream the arbor to accept the weights. I epoxy the weights in the arbor and the arbor in the butt of the blank. On blanks with smaller IDs I just epoxy the weights inside the blank. Once dried, I epoxy the butt cap on.

Clearly the method I use is not easily removed, nor is it adjustable. But it doesn't add length to the rear grip, and other than picking the rod up, you'd never know it was there. Yes the rod will weigh more, but when fishing it, it will feel lighter than it would if it were tip heavy. I've added 2 3/8 oz. to a rod just to get the rod and reel to balance the way I like it. That much weight may seem extreme to some, but that is of no concern to me. I know how the rod fishes with the added weight, and I know how it fished prior to adding the weight.. The difference is night and day.

David,
Although I have used weight in the past to balance a rod, I no longer use any weight to balance a rod, because I simply want a lighter rod. Rather, I simply use a longer handle to balance the rod and work with the longer handle.

But, when I was adding weight, I had first added weight by inserting weight inside the rod blank.

Really a bad, bad idea. The reason is that if more weight is needed and all of the weight is added inside the blank the weight actually goes further and further forward as more weight is added and thus just makes the rod heavier with out having much effect on the balance of the rod.

Rather - if you do decide to balance a rod, keep all of the weight in the last 1/2 inch of the end of the rod blank and the butt of the rod.

To do this easily, I simply used lead tape. I would use 1/2 inch wide lead tape and when making the handle, I would make the handle 1/2 inch shorter than its final expected length. Then, with the rear grip and the rest of the reel seat and fore grip if used, glued in place, I would wrap lead tape around the 1/2 inch of the butt of the rod blank until I achieved balance. Then, I would build up the rest of that 1/2 inch with masking tape if needed to get to the correct diameter for a butt cap and would then glue the butt cap on the rod.
Simple, easy and the method achieves a balanced rod using the least amount of weight because all of the weight is concentrated at the aft section of the rod which lets balance be achieved with the least amount of weight added.

This is the lead tape that I have used in the past. It comes in different widths, so one simply purchases the width tape that one wishes to use to balance a rod. The tape is available from a number of sellers. Just look it up and use the seller you prefer to use:

[www.3m.com]

By the way, this is the same tape used by many folks in the golfing world to balance golf clubs and in the tennis world to balance tennis rackets.

So, yes, the method works, but it does add weight. Weight - that over time would began to bug me . I found - after a significant number of rods had been built using this method that I simply preferred a lighter rod and would simply make the rear grip longer to achieve the balance that I wished to have - -- rather than making the rod heavier. If one builds with a split grip, one can make the rear grip as long as one is needed to achieve balance without having to add any material to the rod. Simply increase the space between the rod butt and the back of the rear grip.

By the way, there have been comments made about a longer grip causing problems with the rod and having the rod getting caught in clothing etc.
But, if one just changes over to always casting with two hands - your casting distance increases greatly and your accuracy improves as well. It may be ackward at first, but one quickly adapts to using two hands to use the rod and the results are amazing.

Best wishes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2020 07:45AM by roger wilson.

Roger, you and I have had this discussion, this debate, this disagreement, or whatever you want to call it, in the past. And it always comes out the same,

I readily admit that my choice to add weight inside the butt of the rod blank, has its' draw backs. It's not easily removed, nor is it easily adjustable. But as I said in my earlier post in this thread, and in other posts to the numerous threads dealing with rod and reel balance in the past ..... reel weight, unless it's drastic, has little effect on a rod and reel's balance point. The latter isn't something I believe, it's something I have proven to myself through experimentation. I've swamped out reels with a 2 oz weight differential on the same rod, and it had very little effect on the rod and reel's balance point. It made a rod that I had weighted to be tip light with the heavier reel, and took to being neutrally balanced in my hand, In fact, it was still the slightest bit tip light. As a further experiment, I decided to see just how much weight I needed to add to bring it to the same balance point it had with the heavier reel. 3/8 of an ounce is all I needed to add. And I taped that weight in the position it would have been in if I had used the lighter reel when I initially balanced the rod.

On the other hand ..... because I respect your experience as a rod builder, I did experiments with something you advocate and promote whenever this topic comes up, and that is moving the reel seat to balance the rod and reel combination. While I didn't have the guides wrapped and finish applied to them, I did have the guides on rod and in the approximate positions I believed they'd be in if the rod were actually built. and I also had the rear grip I was going to use, slid on the rod. To do the experiment, I put the reel in the reel seat and positioned the seat on the rod so that the rod was perfectly balanced at the reel seats forward hood, as it rested on my finger. Using a China marker I marked the blank at the reel seat's position. I then slid the reel seat back against the rear grip I was going to use. The distance I moved the reel seat was 2" further back on the rod blank. I then taped weight to the butt of the grip until the rod was perfectly balanced as described above. I had to add 3/4 of an ounce to get the rod to balance as it had with the reel seat moved forward 2". A 2" longer rear grip would make that rod completely unusable for me. Your suggested remedy of simply casting with two hands instead of one is far from being realistic when the rod in question is a rod used for flipping and pitching while bass fishing. Those are one hand on the rod, one hand on the line or bait techniques that require the ability to manipulate the rod with ease. You want to talk about making a pitching and flipping rod unusable, build it so you actually have to have two hands on rod, to use it.

As for your suggestion of using 1/2" wide lead tape and how to install it goes. Not only is the lead tape not going to be easily removed or adjusted, it's also going to take up more space than the equivalent sized tungsten worm weight would take up.

And finally ,,,, you are absolutely right, the closer the added weight is to the actual very butt of the rod, the less weight it is going to take to achieve the desired result. If memory serves me correctly, the length of the 2 3/8 oz of weight I added to the rod I referenced above, is 2 1/4". In other words, not even 1/4 of the length of the 9 3/4" rear grip I have installed on that rod. Could I just make the rear grip shorter and use one of the weighted butt caps that are available from the various manufacturers instead of using my method? Sure I could. But I build my rods with function as well as aesthetics in mind. They just don't have the looks I prefer.

Anyhow, my apologies to others for going long. To be honest I was just going to do as Lynn did, and post a link or two to previous threads on the subject just to avoid revisiting this debate yet again. What it comes down to is personal preference. If rod and reel balance is important to you for certain rods and reels, and I clearly believe it should be, then it only takes a little experimenting to determine which is the best way for YOU to accomplish it. Just make sure you do it with the idea of actually using the rod, in mind.

Personal preference is what custom rod building is all about.
Norm

Some is personal preference, but a lot is because that,s how roland, or jtmmy, or bill, you know who, hold their rods..monkey see, monkey do..lol.