Yes, I am an admitted weight weenie when it comes to guides.

I picked up an an extreme ultralight light blank - my guess is along the power of 1-2 wt fly blank recently and need the lightest guides possible for it.

Comparing same ring opening size, what guides would be the lightest? If figure if anyone knows, it would be here on rodbuilding.

At this point my guess would be the PacBay M titanium frames or the Fuji Ti Torzites...but don't really know and there are likely others out there.

Thanks in advanced for any help.

Hi Mo..if you saturate your guide wraps with epoxy, your not a true weight weenie..lol.

Mo,
I only use REC and Fuji stuff because I feel they make the best guides.
The REC new Cerecoil ceramic guides weigh less, and have larger openings than the Fuji Ti Torzite.
If you tell me what size you will be using I will send weight.
Herb
U.S. CTS Rep

Herb,

What is the smallest size of the running guides on the REC? I can use that.

I already have the weight on the Fuji Ti Torzites.

Thanks Herb!

Ben Belote, thanks. Agree. with my wraps, you can still feel the individual thread physically. I'm thinking of going one better by wrapping with unicorn hair and not even using any finish at all.....:)

If you want an extremely light guide train, put no guides on the rod. Just put a tip top on the rod. That will give you an ultra ultra light rod.

I expect that you will be able to catch a lot of fish on it.

After all, cane poles just have a string tied to the end of a willow stick and millions of fish have been caught over the years using this method.

Then, you will be able to say that you have the very lightest guide train possible.

Good luck.

p.s.
Before you discount doing that, give it a try. You will not have hurt anything, and if you don't like it, you can always tie on guides later.

Mo, even with unicorn thread you will need to apply some kind of finish to protect it from bumps and scrapes i would think..there is an interesting color preservr and sealer called Seymo that i have tested wraps by submersion in water for 24 hours..no change in color or hardness which seems like it would make a good light one part finish...i,m going to try it on my next rod..if it doesn,t work, it,s easily removed with isoprople alcohol..mud hole carries it..

Roger and Ben, thank you kindly for your replies.

Roger...I do assume that you are making good humor. I intend to cast a 1 gram jig 50+ feet on the rod....don't think thre's any cane pole type set up which can do that.

Ben, interesting comment on the Seymo. Never heard of anyone using a preserver and sealer as a final coat. Did you actually try that? The good thing with personal rods is that if something doesn't work, I can always just rewrap...:)

Mo, i like to play around with different guide set lay ups and used flex coat cp to hold the wraps together..it worked pretty good..easy clean up before trying next set up..this seymo looks even better because of it,s water resistance but still easy clean up..my next rod i,ll try the seymo..on test wraps, three or four coats were enough..the guides are very easy to remove and any residue just wipes completely off with iso alcohol..try some test wraps Mo..

Most of my personal rods over the last 5 years or so have only had a couple coats of CP on the guides, much like Ben. I found that tall frame spinning guides don’t hold nearly as well as casting guides, but with a locking wrap they will stay put quite well. Definitely not as reliable as finishing with epoxy, but I’ve only had to rewrap a few guides, none of which had locking wraps.

It’s a great way to test, and something I decided to try after reading posts from Billy Vivona doing it. I figured if his salt water rods could handle it, my bass rods could too.

Why not use Permagloss as a wrap finish? It is very light, strong, and much more durable than CP.
Norm

Thanks all. Yes, permagloss is light, thin, and strong.

Quick question Ben. Have you found doing guide placement tests to make a substantive difference? In the UL world, I've not detected much difference. Basically I place the guide via a static test so that the blank loads evenly, and also the Fuji guide placement for the three guides closest to the reel. I've also got to cast a bunch of high end Japanese rods and some of those have very unusual guide placements with the butt guide 28 inches from the reel....AND a small size 12 butt guide. Does not seem to make much difference. So I've been less concerned about casting tests. But perhaps I am wrong?

Joe, i applied up to 5 or 6 coats about an hour apart on the tall guides and 2 or 3 on runners..as they dried the coats got harder and held the guide better..Norm, you are c orrect..perma gloss is the best way to go..i hated the fumes, even wore a mask with filters..it got to be too much bother to use and too permanent, difficult to clean up and make changes on guides..the U-40 people have developed a one part finish called Aqua Gloss that doesn,t have the application issues of PG, mainly no fumes and doesn,t dry so quick..nice for finishing blanks and wraps..i got a test sample from U-40 and imagin any one else can by sending an e-mail to them..

Mo,
Actually, for casting, if you put one guide in the middle of the rod, I would expect that the rod would cast about as far, as if it had a full set of guides on it.

Remember, the rod loads initially when casting, but the majority of the casting distance comes from the sling shot effect of the lure being sling shot off the tip of the rod.

Catching a fish is a bit different, but, if you find that you are having landing a fish with one guide on the rod, simply point the rod directly at the fish and use the reel and your arm and elbow to bring in the fish.

This is exactly what we do when we are using very very very light action rods for ice fishing. Normally, we might be catching some small fish. But, now and then a 5-8 lb fish might come along and inhale the bait. We simply point the very light action rod straight down the hole in the ice and use a lifting action with our arm elbow and wrist to bring the fish to the surface.

As I said earlier, you lose nothing by only putting one guide in place on the rod, in the same place that you would have that same guide on the rod as if it were part of a full set of guides.

If you don't like it, just wrap on some more guides in their normal location.

In particular, I have seen so many rod builders, especially those just starting off that put way too many guides on a rod. I suppose that the thinking is that if one is good, then two must be better. However, that is typically NOT the case for a guide train.

Best wishes.

i don,t think one guide is going to transfer very much energy from the rod to set the hook and fight the fish but i guess you can do that by hand lining it..sure would be fun to watch..lol..fly fishers set the hook by hand a good bit but still use the rod to fight the fish, they don,t have to but they do..must have something to do with tradition..lol..

Mo, If you want to go light, try the titanium or titanium Ti black Minima guides with a size 12M, 6M, 4ML reduction train to small runners of your choice. With a small reel and braid, the stripper could be placed somewhere between 18 to 20 inches in front of the reel. Should work fine, and will be very light. Could also try a 10M, 5M, 4ML reduction train, might need to play around with the stripper distance.
Norm

Mo, i just now spotted your question about guide placement tests..it,s not just guide placement i,m looking at..it,s guide sizes, guide number, ring material, lines and line sizes..my last project was to develope a better easier bow and arrow rod for bank fishing brushy shores and creeks..i ended up with a 50 to 55" glass spin rod that can shoot a quarter ounce trap close to sixty feet using 10# braided power pro line..i also was able to eliminate the reduction guides and just use a # 7 or 8 butt guide and get sixty feet..point is CP made it easier to remove and clean up the rod before tying on next guide set up or guide change..tinkering is fun..lol.

Thanks all!

Norm. Thanks. I got the titanium Black Minima guide (after I posted my query) off Mudhole's website. The Titanium frame 4L is listed at .068 grams. I weighed 10 Fuji Ti Torzites at size 3.5. Both guides have the same ID. Torzites came up to .04 grams. I am surprised and am not sure if perhaps Mudhole had erroneous data. The Fuji Ti Torzites size 3.0 was .025 grams. Just FYI.

Ben, HUGE thanks for your extra effort in providing your own insights. 60 feet witha short rod just using a 'bow and arrow' action? (I assume this is where you physically pule the lure back and let the rod's bend snap it back out.) That seems excellent.

Roger, thanks too all your help including the past on the ice blanks.

I consider my question answered unless anyone has even lighter guides than the Fuji Ti Torzites...:)

yes Mo, pull lure back to bend rod and release to shoot lure..the same can be done with a graphite rod but the timing is much faster and more difficult..the time lure isreleased and then the line on the spool is released by the other hand is much easier with a glass rod for me that is..it takes a little practise..

I have measured the weight on Minimas and Fuji Torzite, SIC and Alconite with a jeweler's scale. At the 5 to 4 mm ring sizes all the Fujis are lighter than the Minimas and between the Fujis they are all over the place because of inconsistent frame stamping or adhesive applied to the ring. So a Torzite guide with a Ti frame may not weight less than a SS frame with a Alconite ring. On the larger sizes I believe the Fuji guides are going to be lighter because the ring material weights less than a SS ring of the Minima.