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Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---)
Date: November 17, 2020 03:20PM

I have read various threads here that discuss the best way tp place guides on the rod. Some say to place the guides on the belly, while other state that placing the guides on the stiffest spine is best. Still others favor a corkscrew orientation. From an engineering standpoint, I know that the lifting power o fthe rod comes from the bottom end of the rod blank. So, a hybrid approach makes sense to me. Using the stiffest line from butt to where the rod begins to bend increases lifting power, and reduces the chance of hoop collapse with relation to the cross-section. From the the tip to rode flex point the guides should be placed on the rod belly to allow the softer action to protect the rod end, lay down the flies softer, and to protect the tippet from breakage. The ide is to use the strengths of each section to produce maximum sensitiity, line control, and strength, all of which should produce better casting power, while making the presentation more easy to control.

So, has anyone actually tested one type of guide placement against another on like rod blanks to see which performs the bets?

My Next build, a 6 weight, will get the guides placed on the stiffest mlongitudinal line, with the upper to sections having the guides placed on the belly.

Tightlines and frisky fish

RJF

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: November 17, 2020 03:50PM

How hard the fly hits the water is on the fisherman - not the rod. There is only one spine, and it is not the stiffest axis, nor is it 180 degrees from the stiffest axis. Keep in mind that "spine" is not a physical thing, but rather an effect caused by the combination of several manufacturing anomalies.

You may find this interesting: [www.rodbuilding.org]

.............

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Robert Flowers (---)
Date: November 17, 2020 06:29PM

OK, but by aligning the guides on the stiffest line at the bottom, and on the belly moving toward the tip should load the rod better on the back cast, allowing more energy to be transferred to the line. on the forward cast, much like the stronger limbs on a bow. My real question is; has anyone but on the stiffest axis, and on the belly, and which performed better, in your opinion?

Tight Lines and frisky fish

RJF

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: November 17, 2020 07:00PM

i align only to make a rod appear straight and have no idea where any other axis is..i guess i,m getting some kind of blend of strong and weak axises..i don,t think i would feel a dfference any which way...blanks are layed out much better than in the past..

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.68.237.121.hwccustomers.com)
Date: November 17, 2020 07:42PM

Robert Flowers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read various threads here that discuss the
> best way tp place guides on the rod. Some say to
> place the guides on the belly, while other state
> that placing the guides on the stiffest spine is
> best. Still others favor a corkscrew orientation.
> From an engineering standpoint, I know that the
> lifting power o fthe rod comes from the bottom
> end of the rod blank. So, a hybrid approach makes
> sense to me. Using the stiffest line from butt to
> where the rod begins to bend increases lifting
> power, and reduces the chance of hoop collapse
> with relation to the cross-section. From the the
> tip to rode flex point the guides should be placed
> on the rod belly to allow the softer action to
> protect the rod end, lay down the flies softer,
> and to protect the tippet from breakage. The ide
> is to use the strengths of each section to produce
> maximum sensitiity, line control, and strength,
> all of which should produce better casting power,
> while making the presentation more easy to
> control.
>
> So, has anyone actually tested one type of guide
> placement against another on like rod blanks to
> see which performs the bets?
>
> My Next build, a 6 weight, will get the guides
> placed on the stiffest mlongitudinal line, with
> the upper to sections having the guides placed on
> the belly.
>
> Tightlines and frisky fish
>
> RJF

WHAT?!?!?!?!

Herb

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 17, 2020 07:50PM

I disagree with you RJF, if that were the case, and that easy to get a better performing rod, all the commercial fly rod builders would build on the spine and they do not. I don't either, but confidence is a big thing, do what you like.

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 17, 2020 08:22PM

I build only fly rods and have for years. I also fly fish over much of the world and find the the spine has no relevance, except for creating debates! Your reference toa "corkscrew" alignment makes no sense for fly rods! Build on the straightest axis and go enjoy the fishing!!

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 17, 2020 08:26PM

A blank that is in pieces (2 piece, 3 piece and 4 pieces) will have a spine for each piece and they may not line up visually looking down the axis. Most builders are going to build on the visual axis so that all the pieces line up on a straight axis as viewed looking down the blank otherwise the finished rod will look like a snake's back. Some will build with the tip up and some with it down. Since it is was not built on the spine, is it really going to matter? On a fly rod the guides go on the bottom side of the blank the same as a spinning rod. On a bait caster they traditionally go on the top side of the blank but a bait casting rod can be built with a spiral wrap (Acid Wrap) where the guides start on the top of the blank and transition to the bottom with the tip top facing down like a spinning rod. One piece rods will typically have a major spine (a direction that it will bend with the least amount of pressure) but can also have another less prominent bend or bends depending on the point where the pressure point and stationary position distance from the tip is. Again, the builder typically builds on the straightest axis, tip up or tip down. Sometimes the spine and the straightest axis line up. I will build tip down but many on this site will build tip up. I do it because it does seem to cast better with lighter baits but when the bait is near the limit in weight of what the rod can handle, tip up works better (for me). This is my opinion, and many may not agree, and I do not have any data to back this up other than that is what it feels like to me. Feelings are abstract and are not analytical.

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Re: Gide placement for fly rpods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: November 17, 2020 08:38PM

The spine does not accelerate or "throw" the fly line. Try a bow-and-arrow cast with your fly rod and a fly line and leader and observe the results. What little energy the rod itself exerts during a fly cast goes into forming the loop in the fly line - which is a critical task indeed - but has little if any effect upon the velocity of the fly line. The flycaster, not the spine, creates the distance and the direction of the cast.

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