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Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Robert Ford (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 10, 2020 07:46PM

Hi all. Recently purchased a NFC FW 662-2(IM LMX) and I am building this for a friend. He fishes spinners on 4 pound test in colorado for trout,and uses a 1000 series Shimano Stradic Ci4. I have gotten so much information on this board over the last few years and I try to contribute what I can. Anyway I want to get him the best guides I can,and I am open to suggestions. Thanks in advance!

Robert

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: September 10, 2020 08:01PM

In my world Fuji K-R concept. But I am sure in a quick few minutes I will be out voted with microwave guide system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2020 08:30PM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Robert Ford (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 10, 2020 08:26PM

I love fuji. I guess I was more curious how to go about setting this up properly for him. Guide height distance from the reel. I am doing research on it.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 10, 2020 08:45PM

Use the software on the anglersresource.org site. Bullet proof. But with 4 pound test line just about anything will work just fine. But I can tell you what I would do: KLH 16-8-5.5M +KB/KT runners to the end. LG tiptop. Any Fuji ring and frame will work just fine.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Robert Ford (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 10, 2020 08:50PM

Thank you I forgot I could do the chart to the left! Duh lol.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: September 10, 2020 08:59PM

Copy the comment from Michael!

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: September 11, 2020 12:56AM

I am in the process of building a trout rod for myself. I was looking to go as light as possible. I am going to run braid which allows me to go with smaller guides. Anways I went with Pacbay Match Minimas. Played around with it and got exceptional performance out of a 8 and a 4 low for reduction and then 7 minima f size 4 runners and a ceramic ring tip. Probable could not of gone that small for the reduction with mono. The braid has absolutely no coil memory.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Eric Garza (---.burlingtontelecom.net)
Date: September 11, 2020 06:35AM

All of the brands listed would work fine. I would start smaller though, with a 12 or 10 stripper guide. I just finished a 7'2" UL Rainshadow with Fuji Aconites and used 10-KLH for the stripper, 5.5-KLL and 4.5-KB for the reduction train, a 4KB to transition, and 4KTs for runners. Stripper is 24 inches from reel stem. Casts like a charm.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: September 11, 2020 09:50AM

There is no actual data available about any differences in breakage or coefficient of friction between brands or models of guides. Without personal experience your choice can only be based upon the best advertisements or the best testimonials for your guides choice, but with so many quality guides on the market today you can't go very wrong if you stick to name brands.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Kent Griffith (---)
Date: September 11, 2020 10:39AM

One thing you might consider is guide 'eye' ring material. There are different ceramics used to make the guide rings. SIC guides, or silicone carbide are the hardest material for guide rings, but it is also the most brittle and seems to shatter easier than ceramics not as hard or as brittle.

A lot of people choose SIC guides simply because they are touted as the best money can buy, but that is debatable if they are also the easiest to shatter. Do a quick google search on "SIC guides breaking" to see what I mean. I am sure there have been improvements over the years working towards making a more reliable SIC guide, but one has to take into consideration the load use of the fishing application versus need of guide performance and durability.

And it is for this reason I never use SIC guides. Not just because they are the most expensive usually, but quite simply because for my purpose of making low-load bass rods I have no need for such hard guide 'eye' rings. Alconite is more than adequate for my needs and offers me more durability and can take more abuse and accidental drops than SIC guides can or will.

And I find that for me on bass fishing rods there is no discernible difference in performance between the 2 and my braid line choice has never damaged a guide on any of my rods in many years of use. So I simply do not see a need for SIC quality for low load situations.

And you stated in your original post this rod is to be used mainly for 4lb test line which is a very low load on the guides, my point is I think you would do fine with a middle of the road hardness scale for your guide ring material choice.

A quick search on this forum brings up the following measurements for consideration:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

VICKER'S HARDNESS SCALE Values
for Line Guide Ring Materials 2005

Stainless Steel (SS): 400 [B.E.]
Chrome: 800-1000 [C.M.]
Carbaloy: 1000 [B.E.]
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400 [B.E., C.M.]
Alconite (Fuji): 1300-1500 [Fuji]
NanoLite (Titan): 1800 [J.M.]
Zirconia: 1000-1400 [M.G.]
Zirconia PVD: 1600 [B.E.]
SiC: 2200-2400 [B.E., C.M.]

There are numerous studies and reports on silicone carbide from outside the fishing tackle industry which also confirms the brittle and easy to shatter and fracture properties of silicone carbide.

Under ideal circumstances SIC guides are superior, but as is quite often the case, rods do not "live" in an ideal environment and are often mishandled and dropped leading to guides breaking.

I would rather choose a lesser material so I can count on it being more durable over time. Just something to consider...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 01:39PM by Kent Griffith.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Robert Ford (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 11, 2020 10:47AM

I believe I will be putting fuji torzites on this rod. I like the idea of the smaller stripper guide. I built a steelhead rod for swinging spoons with Torzites and they just look and perform fantastic. I was eyeballing the black sic fuji titaniums as well. I have used alps,pac bay,and crb guides as well,and liked all of them . Going to price everything out for him and see what I come up with later today. He won't be using braid,and frankly last time I built with this micro guides I was pulling my hair out. I can't see those tiny things! I dropped one and spent 10 minutes trying to find it lol.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 11, 2020 01:20PM

The Pac Bay match guides have an excellent history of performance and durability. Companies like G Loomis used them on their rods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2020 10:13PM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: September 11, 2020 03:58PM

With a rod using 4# line,I would look into the Pac Bay Match model M or the Minima model SV. They are very light and durable. They are my go to guides.

For tips I use a Fuji SIC and there are a number of styles to choose from.

Have Fun

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: John Keough (---.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
Date: September 11, 2020 07:09PM

I would use the Microwave Air guides, super lite and super durable. I am building a steelhead rod for drifting light line and using these.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: September 12, 2020 12:58AM

Robert,
While you certainly cannot go wrong with Tortsite rings (and subsequent Ti frames) consider the Alconite equivalents with Fuji’s Corrosion Control finish, SS frames at a fraction of the price; I certainly do and have done so many times = my go-to guides!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: September 12, 2020 11:24AM

If you want titanium frames in a Fuji guide, it's either SIC or Torzite. As far as the Fuji T2 titanium frames with the slim SIC rings go ... they are absolutely gorgeous. I have them on 3 of the last 4 rods I've built. So far so good on their durability. As far as their lighter weight making a discernible difference in performance over the same guide with an SS frame and an Alconite ring is concerned ..... to be honest, I can't tell a bit of difference. I just know that they are as sweet as all get out, and I wanted the rods I built with them to be just as sweet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2020 01:59PM by David Baylor.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 13, 2020 10:57AM

Pac Bay match guides also come in titanium, zirconium, however, is the only ceramic ring material offered if you don't like the SS rings. They also come in a polished 316 stainless for more corrosion resistance if you want.

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Robert Ford (---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: September 13, 2020 08:57PM

Thanks so much guys for the suggestions! My buddy is always bragging how much money he makes so I'm making him buy the best haha! I will look into all these options before pulling the pin.

Robert

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Re: Guide Train Suggestions?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: September 13, 2020 11:05PM

At the risk of sounding nit-picky, I think Spencer made a bob boo, at least in his sentence structure. Ti guides are more corrosion resistant than SS316 and I am confident he knows that. I am simply clarifying.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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