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Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Justin Hires (199.230.203.---)
Date: July 28, 2020 06:19AM

Can it accurately measure Action on bass rods? If so, a couple of things: The straw or pointer I install near the tip of the rod under the tip top correct so it is horizontal with the rod? And not completely understanding exactly about the tip or pointer passing thru the protractor scale. As to exactly where it is to be held and where to measure the degrees off the rod? or pointer to the top of the scale?
Also, seems when I check it most of my rods no matter ex-fast, fast, read 70deg. The pictures are very hard to decipher. And chart says anything 66deg and above is Fast action. Is this true for bass rods or just fly rods. I have CRB chart lists 70 degrees as Moderate-fast. Trying to determine rod actions on rods I own and blanks. I know all are all over the board to what one considers mod-fast, fast etc. And I am cutting down some blanks to lengths I want. So, like to be able to see where my actions are also after doing this.

Thanks for any help!

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2020 07:26AM

The CCS doesn't measure rods - it measures action, power and speed. So any rod blank with those inherent qualities can be measured. A rod blank is just a round shaft. A bass rod is no different than a surf rod, fly rods, etc. They're all the same - just flexible, round shafts.

I assume you have the photos from the article which show how to mount the AA chart. There is a small center point that you will set so that the tip of the deflected rod is right on that. The pointer extending back from tip will pass through the chart at some degree point. The photo should be easy to understand. If you don't have it I'll try to take one for you.

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Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2020 07:27AM

Look on page 4 here: [www.common-cents.info]

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Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Justin Hires (199.230.203.---)
Date: July 28, 2020 07:48AM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look on page 4 here:
> [www.common-cents.info]
>
>
> ............

Ok, thanks. Yes I meant to say check action angle, poor wording saying measure action angle. Tip sits on the the small center point. That answers that question. And the pointer I mount on the guide side just behind the tip (tape it to rod near tip) so it is horizontal/lays flat at the rod tip correct? and read the pointer opposite of the tip and gives the action angle degree. It lists:
Action Angle - degrees
below 59 slow
59 - 63 Moderate
63 - 66 Moderate/Fast
above 66 Fast

Are these numbers correct or another chart that tells for ex-fast ect. and does taper of rod matter.

My understanding is depending on rod, cutting from the butt slows action and say a fast action to maybe moderate-fast, and loss of power?

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2020 10:21AM

I only included those terms as an initial point of reference for those new to the measurements. The idea isn't to take the AA and then label a rod as fast, medium, etc., just as you wouldn't measure rod length and then ascribe terms like long, short, medium, etc. to any given rod length. You just use the numbers as you would if measuring length or the weight of a rod. So don't worry about how to categorize the numbers to terms. Just use the numbers. The higher the number, the faster the action is. Measure a few rods you have and you'll quickly get an idea of what the numbers relate to.

Cutting from either end of the rod will make the action slower. Cutting from the butt reduces overall rod power. Cutting from the tip may increase the casting lure weight the blank can throw.

..........

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 28, 2020 10:57AM

If rod blank marketers were to provide physical facts rather than emotional fantasies about their products there would be fewer new rod builders confused, disappointed, and abandoning rod building. Ads could still rhapsodize in adspeak about their products AFTER they provided physical facts about blanks. Even the most basic facts, such as a blank's deflection in inches caused by a stated weight, could steer rod builders in the direction they want to go.

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 28, 2020 12:11PM

Cortland tried the thing about number of inches of deflection per a standard weight. Didn't work so well due to the difference in rod action. They just got it backwards.

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Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Justin Hires (---)
Date: July 28, 2020 02:26PM

Ok, so I followed all the instructions and check multiple times. I checked two manufactured bass rods that I have been fishing for the past 2 and 3 years.
Here are my results:
One is a casting 7' Heavy Xfast AA 73deg, 350 pennies/875grams
Other is casting 6' 9" Med Heavy Fast AA 75deg, 268 pennies/670grams

I built 3 rods from North Fork. Never checked CCS readings before building them. I did however compare a few of my manufactured rods on the CBR deflection chart to get the actions and powers close.
I built a casting 6' 9" from a SJ-736 cutting it down from 86.5" to closely match the 6' 9" Med Heavy manufactured rod I mentioned earlier. I noticed if I was to build it into a 6' 8" the actions/powers would be nearly close. But, decided to keep it 6' 9" due to liking the length and having a little more power than in the rod than what I have been using. The CCS on this build rod came out to AA 73deg, 279penny/697grams. I am very happy with it.
The other two I built for TX rigs. I built from North Fork MB-736's. I cut them down to 85" from the 86.5" blank on both of them. One of them is AA 69deg, 265penny/667grams. The other is AA 69deg, 277 penny/693 grams. Only difference in the two is the guide spacing was a little different when doing the static load testing, not a lot but few different positions. I checked the weight, butt and tip size and both were almost identical. Very happy with these rods so far. They fish very well!

I am trying to build rods that are closer to Moderate fast rather than fast or X fast, in the lengths and power I prefer. And I really like the X Ray blanks, they are light, sensitive and load up very well. I have a couple of Neo's coming that I want to shorten and make into crankbait rods. Have yet to see any other X ray blanks other then what I have built.

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: July 29, 2020 09:23AM

I would really like to see a double-blind rod "action" test administered to a group of anglers which asked them to rate blanks as "extra fast" of "fast or "medium fast" or "medium" etc.. Communication is not possible unless words have agreed-upon meanings corresponding to reality.

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 29, 2020 09:50AM

Under the age-old rod manufacturer definition of action, any rod that initially flexes in the upper 1/4 of its length is considered X-fast, initially in the upper 1/3 is fast, initially in the upper 1/2 is moderate and initially all along its entire length is slow.

All blanks, regardless of action, will flex well down into the butt area once enough load has been applied.

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Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: July 29, 2020 01:03PM

I don't understand the "initially flexes" part? The entire rod flexes to some degree when ANY load is suspended from its tip. How much must the rod flex before this measurement is taken, 45 degrees? 90 degrees? How much weight is used to produce this deflection? Knowing this information would give the savvy rod-builder and rod buyer some useful (versus inspiring) information.

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 29, 2020 02:18PM

"Where the rod initially flexes" is the whole, part and parcel of the standard action "system."It means what it says. There is no weight used. You put your hand on the tip, or begin pressing the tip on the floor, and note where the initial flex occurs. Then assign the term fast, moderate or slow to it. This "system" has been in place for well over 50 years now and appeared in numerous rod and blank catalogs during this time. It is also the system that the CCS AA measurement was meant to replace, for obvious reasons.



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Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 29, 2020 05:52PM

Phil, your double blind test is IMO a waste of time when you have the CCS system that deals with objective numbers, just what you've always wanted.

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 30, 2020 08:44AM

Michael: For decades rod blank manufacturers and advertisers have shunned CCS along with any and all objective information about their merchandise. Perhaps the blank retailers and their admen fear the average rod builder is incapable of comprehending physical facts, or will be confused by them, or worst of all, will realize that price is not a reliable predictor of performance?

Re: Can CCS be used for AA for Action on Bass rods?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 30, 2020 09:12AM

For decades they've shunned the CCS? Well if you consider one decade, perhaps. The CCS isn't that old you know...

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