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Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Phil Erickson
(---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 11, 2020 04:59PM
Phil Ew, Yellowstone Anglers DO NOT use "six or eight recognized expert fly casters!", they use their staff from the shop, including George Anderson and his son!
I have been a follower of their rod "shoot outs" for years and respect their opinions, but recognize that the only really factual data they present is Weight, price and warranties. Beyond that it is a compilation of each of the four persons opinions. With your dislike of advertising and marketing lingo, I find it unusual you do not object to their usage of these terms from some of their recent shoot outs, "wide sweet spot, long bomb, rod is a powerhouse, like a freight train, absolute beast, rod is a true cannon", and my favorite, "zing & pop!" Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2020 06:04PM by Phil Erickson. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 11, 2020 05:54PM
Come on Phil, they use similar subjective terms all the time. You presented them as providing "objective" info. Wasn't objective, might not have used your favorite subjective terms, but they have a lot of their own, like my first post quoted. Including one that wasn't allowed on the forum. You condemn a certain selection of terms yet ignore that Yellowstone is using almost the same terms. And opinions are in no way objective. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: July 11, 2020 08:48PM
Complaining about a lack of objective results, measurements, statements, etc., is all well and good. It's true. But posting about it here isn't going to change anything. Perhaps the same comments made on the various fly fishing forums will do more good; rattle more cages, etc. You're preaching to choir here...
............ Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: July 11, 2020 09:20PM
The Y.A. articles publish the average distance cast in feet and inches for each caster with each rod, and the average accuracy in feet and inches for each caster with each rod. Personally I am more interested in this information than how sweet or soulful the rods are, which is also reported in the articles - but if people want to hear this stuff I don't begrudge them one bit. Enjoy. I would welcome an explanation of what "extra fast" or "smooth" or "powerful" means when applied to fishing rods. It would help me select the right blanks. Seeking facts should not offend? Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Jeff Saxby
(---.new.res.rr.com)
Date: July 11, 2020 11:49PM
The most important thing about a fishing rod is if you like it or not. It is impossible for someone else to tell you that. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
John DeMartini
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 08:21AM
Jeff I believe you described the essence of rod crafting. The true worth of a rod is its value to the user. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 09:16AM
The true value of a golf club is if you like it or not, but that generally depends upon how it performs. What do you do if a customer who wants a rod made requires the rod to be "smooth, powerful, lite, and fast - like a Shakespeare Wonder Rod "? If you have been around for a while I KNOW you have dealt with potential customers like this. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
John DeMartini
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 11:16AM
There are folks out there that will never be satisfied.
I find it hard to believe these people only emerge after the sale. It would seem to me that these folks would be putting up red flags during the initial negotiations. If I sense a difficult customer I let them know up front that I do not think I can give them what they want and I politely extract myself from the situation. If you pick up on these folks and continue to do business with them then you deserve all the grief you get. PS If a person wants a rod like a "Shakespeare Wonder Rod" Let them know they can still get a "Wonder Rod" from @#$%& or the internet. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 12:10PM
John D.
On the internet but not But not "custom made"! Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
John DeMartini
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 01:18PM
You are correct! My point is if a person wants a rod like a Shakespeare Wonder Rod then they should consider buying a Shakespeare Wonder Rod.
PS I believe one can get just about anything "custom made" on the internet. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Herb Ladenheim
(---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 12, 2020 02:46PM
Phil,
One of the worst designed rods is the GLoomis NRX - powerful? Yes. A pleasure to csat - NO. Yet it won the #8 shootout a few years ago. WHY??? Because they sell them. Herb Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Phil Ewanicki
(---)
Date: July 12, 2020 03:25PM
Herb: I have never casted, let alone owned an NRX. Apparently it doesn't "agree" with your casting style, but it might easily thrill another fly caster, maybe even me? No amount of hogwash about "power" or "smoothness" or "speed" or "magic" [positive or negative hogwash] will improve or change my ignorance about how an NRX will fit my casting or my needs - or enlighten anyone else. Human progress uses qualification and quantification of reality, not hype, to advance. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Michael Danek
(---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 12, 2020 05:38PM
"Apparently it doesn't "agree" with your casting style, but it might easily thrill another fly caster, maybe even me?" Your words, and exactly why there will never be a set of numbers that will adequately describe a rod so that there will never be expectations unmet. You can eliminate the "hogwash" (which has been quoted from YA earlier) and still it's too complex for a set of numbers to describe a rod adequately for everyone. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Lynn Behler
(---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: July 12, 2020 08:06PM
No matter how you slice it , it all boils down to it "feels" to the user. I'm not aware of any chart that reflects that. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Tom Kirkman
(Moderator)
Date: July 12, 2020 09:26PM
You can get close. If you have a rod you like and have measured it for length, weight, power action and, perhaps most importantly, relative frequency, then any rod that matches all those specs is going to be very very close to what you have. The relative frequency (speed) is the measurement most closely related to how a rod "feels."
........... Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
ben belote
(---.zoominternet.net)
Date: July 13, 2020 09:20AM
Just shake it..lol. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Robert Ford
(---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: July 13, 2020 12:23PM
ben belote Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Just shake it..lol. This made me laugh Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
ben belote
(---.zoominternet.net)
Date: July 13, 2020 12:48PM
Robert, sounds like your and old shaker too..lol. Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Lynn Behler
(---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: July 13, 2020 09:11PM
I may be able to replicate what feels right to me by using measurements, but who knows what the next guy feels? Re: unbiased, objective facts
Posted by:
Robert Ford
(---.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
Date: July 15, 2020 02:08AM
ben belote Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Robert, sounds like your and old shaker too..lol. I always shake my rods :P Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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