I’m starting on another lipless crankbait build. Going to use a PacBay Mjnima guide train on a Rainshadow REVCB70M to throw 1/4oz traps and UL Rippin Raps. I was thinking about using one size 6 Model T and size 4 Model F’s the rest of the way with a size 4 top. Not sure if this is the best layout, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Christian Gerstner Jr Wrote:
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> I’m starting on another lipless crankbait build.
> Going to use a PacBay Mjnima guide train on a
> Rainshadow REVCB70M to throw 1/4oz traps and UL
> Rippin Raps. I was thinking about using one size 6
> Model T and size 4 Model F’s the rest of the way
> with a size 4 top. Not sure if this is the best
> layout, so any help is greatly appreciated.


Just want to add that I’ll be using 12-16# FC. Have used co-poly in the past but I usually stick with FC

I like to use the 10T followed by a 6T, then 4wF runners. This puts the stripper a little higher off the blank for better line flow. I also like to use a ceramic tip top as protection against grooving.
Norm

Christian,

When I think about lipless cranks, I tend to think about fishing them above vegetation and ripping them out when they get stuck. Even though you are looking at throwing the smaller sizes, your line choice tells me that you might want to think about stepping up the blank to the MH model. The M model is going to be better suited to diving baits thrown in more open water. Crankbait style rod blanks tend to be pretty limber and load pretty well, even at or a bit below their

I like the guide train plan for low profile reels (with a taller round profile reel, I would be inclined to increase the size of the butt guide), but like Norman, I prefer a ceramic tip top when using minima style guides. I've had tip tops with metal inserts groove in the past, granted they weren't PacBay Minimas, but it still is enough to make me err on the side of caution with the tip top.

Does guide size influence the performance of lipless crank baits or how they cast, and if so, how? What kind of line will you be using?

Joe,
I have a REVCB70MH. I use the MH model loaded with 15 or 16# when I go with the “ripping it out of the grass” technique. I’m planning on using the M model specifically for burning the lure close to the surface. I’ll more than likely have 12# FC on it exclusively.

Phil,
Could just be a “confidence” thing, but I feel like micro guides improve my casting distance a little. I also like the added sensitivity and weight reduction that comes with micro guides. Not as much of a sensitivity thing with lipless cranks, but pretty much all of my casting rods have micro guides.

We know that weight saving micro guides reduce leveraged weight and speed the rod's recovery rate, regardless of what is being cast, and micro guides look great too. I wonder what there is specifically about lipless crank baits and their use which recommends micro guides?

Phil, don’t make yourself out to be so uninformed. You know very well that a properly laid out and light guide train will perform well no matter what lure is being used. In my opinion, as well as many others, a micro guide layout is a performance enhancer no matter what lure you are using. Different blanks types can have advantages for different types of techniques and lures used. You answered your own silly question.
Norm

Norman Miller Wrote:
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> I like to use the 10T followed by a 6T, then 4wF
> runners. This puts the stripper a little higher
> off the blank for better line flow. I also like to
> use a ceramic tip top as protection against
> grooving.
> Norm

Norm,
I was planning on using the FXT model on the tip. I was back and forth between the Minima guides and the Recoils for this build. Haven’t used either as of yet, but I’m looking forward to trying them out.

The FXT tip top will work quite well. I have used the recoils but not a big fan of them, they tend to sing, and are expensive. However, they are very light and do work well. The Minima 4wF have a wide foot and I find they need to be trimmed for the tip section of the rod. It’s the only guide I ever prep. Try both and decide which you like better. It’s fun trying out different options and seeing how they perform.
Norm

Norman Miller: The poster referred specifically to a "lipless crankbait" rod - a type of rod I am unfamiliar with. I know what makes a hotshot rod different, even though it has the same guides as any other rod. I only asked what makes a rod a lipless crankbait rod besides the fact it's tied to a lipless crank bait?

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
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> We know that weight saving micro guides reduce
> leveraged weight and speed the rod's recovery
> rate, regardless of what is being cast, and micro
> guides look great too. I wonder what there is
> specifically about lipless crank baits and their
> use which recommends micro guides?

No you asked why microguides are recommended for a lipless crankbait rod, not what characteristics make a good a good lipless crankbait blank. You answered your own question.
Norm

P.hil, i,ll just add my two cents and say it,s a crankbait rod..being lipless is a description of it,s main use..these are mostly moderate action rods..i like glass rods for this especially since i use braided line..the idea is to make it harder for the fish to throw the bait loose..the head shaking is softer, less herky jerky like carbon is..

Thanks, Ben, a moderate action makes sense for that use. Of course I'm dying to ask how a "lipless crank bait rod" differs from a rod used for plugs with a lip. I also wonder if the desired action of the rod would differ if it was primarily used for trolling rather than casting, and whether that would influence choice of guide size? For example, larger guides pass casting "wind knots" better than micros.

Phil,

The preferred action for a lipless crank bait rod is the same as a rod for traditional diving plugs. Both lure classes typically involve two free swinging treble hooks attached to a weighted body. Jumping fish can often put enough slack in the line during their aerial acrobatic displays to allow them to take advantage of torque generated by shaking the weighted body to dislodge the hooks. A rod that flexes deeply into the blank and recovers more slowly will increase the amount of time it takes for the slack to be created in the line and generally help in keeping the fish on the hook until it reaches the boat. Additionally the combination of action and power of a well selected rod will help keep the rod from applying too much force too quickly that often results in ripping the hook out of lightly hooked fish near the boat.

One caveat that comes with fishing lipless crank baits is that many anglers will fish them over the tops of dense vegetation, which will generally require a more powerful rod to get control of the fish quickly and keep them from burying themselves in the weeds. While traditional diving crank baits are fished often along the outside of the edge of vegetation or near cover with more open water nearby. In that scenario, rods with a little less power can be used effectively.

As far as trolling applications are concerned, I would still be looking for a moderate action rod with appropriate power for the fish and environment for use with lures with treble hooks. I would consider different lengths when working with multiple lures in a spread. However, I'm not that advanced in my trolling.

I have both rods in my boat for using with traps. Consider the MH and use a alum oxide tip. You do need to be able to feel a lipless bait. Always. I never liked Mjnima but to each his own. My blanks were all RX7s. An MH can be used with 12 to 10 lb if need be. I use 15 lb if it is weedy. If you like the M, go for it. I believe the MH is more versatile.
Fine blanks for the money.

Joe Vanfossen Wrote:
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> Phil,
>
> The preferred action for a lipless crank bait rod
> is the same as a rod for traditional diving plugs.
> Both lure classes typically involve two free
> swinging treble hooks attached to a weighted body.
> Jumping fish can often put enough slack in the
> line during their aerial acrobatic displays to
> allow them to take advantage of torque generated
> by shaking the weighted body to dislodge the
> hooks. A rod that flexes deeply into the blank
> and recovers more slowly will increase the amount
> of time it takes for the slack to be created in
> the line and generally help in keeping the fish on
> the hook until it reaches the boat. Additionally
> the combination of action and power of a well
> selected rod will help keep the rod from applying
> too much force too quickly that often results in
> ripping the hook out of lightly hooked fish near
> the boat.
>
> One caveat that comes with fishing lipless crank
> baits is that many anglers will fish them over the
> tops of dense vegetation, which will generally
> require a more powerful rod to get control of the
> fish quickly and keep them from burying themselves
> in the weeds. While traditional diving crank
> baits are fished often along the outside of the
> edge of vegetation or near cover with more open
> water nearby. In that scenario, rods with a
> little less power can be used effectively.
>
> As far as trolling applications are concerned, I
> would still be looking for a moderate action rod
> with appropriate power for the fish and
> environment for use with lures with treble hooks.
> I would consider different lengths when working
> with multiple lures in a spread. However, I'm not
> that advanced in my trolling.


Phil,
Joe hit the nail on the head. After completing this build, I’ve figured out that the REVCB701M is a little on the “lighter” side for lipless baits. As far as differences between a lipless rod and a billed crankbait rod, I definitely like a little bit more power on a lipless rod. Also... I prefer a shorter rod, especially with a squarebill, for a little bit more accurate casts.