I am going to build a CTS float blank, 13’ 4~8lb, but using 2500 size Daiwa spinning reel and not centerpin.

1. I am going to use mono and braid line, is it OK to use KR guide concept? As I would like to try the KR setting. (Read somewhere that KR is only for braid?)

2. I looked for Fuji KR guide placing charts as well as KR GPS. But what I found the spacing recommendation is only for up to 9’ long rod. So, how could I get the spacing for my 13’?

3. I still tried to input the figures into the KR GPS on anglersresource, and the result looked a bit weird:

Stripper to second reduction guide=19.8”, Second reducer to third=17.3” and Third reducer to choke guide = 11.7”

They seem so far away? According to the spacing recommendation from CTS the above 3 figures are 13.7”, 12.8” and 11”.

4. Here is the CTS spacing recommendation, but I think it is not KR concept.

From top to stripper, 13 guides in total, distance in mm: 125, 268, 428, 607, 803, 1017, 1245, 1487, 1743, 2016, 2314, 2638, 2988

5. At last, I could not find the gold colour KB guides I want (IGKBSG), but I could source KL-H and KT. Could I use KT instead, for a 4~8lb blank? Or use some smaller KL as belly guides?


Thank you very much

In theory, once you have a stripper and choke point for a certain sized reel then it doesn’t need to change no matter the length of the rod, you just need to add more runners. In practice this works up to a certain point until the number of guides become unwieldy. The Fuji KR GPS calculates where the choke guide is placed by multiplying the distance from the stripper to the tip top by approximately 0.42 and placing the choke at this distance in front of the stripper. As you can see the choke moves further out with increased rod length, and thus the reduction train gets longer. This is fine also, because fewer runners are needed and the reduction train is still placed in the stiffer butt section. However, a very long reduction train can also get to be unwieldy. So with all things rod building, compromise and common sense is required. The choke point is not locked in stone and in fact is quite flexible and can be moved in or out to get and excellent guide train layout. Just need to experiment a little to find what works best for the rod in hand. For example, the guide train length for 6 1/2’ to 7 1/2’ rods the reduction train length can vary from 19 to 23”, for 8 to10’ rods the reduction train can vary from 26 to over 36”. The CTS spacing for your rod has a reduction train of 37.5” and this is close to what Fuji KRGPS would recommend for a 10 to 11’ rod, and could serve as a good starting point. You could certainly come in even closer if you wish. I have used the KR concept on several 12’ light to medium spin rods and it worked just great.
Yes the KR concept will work quite well with both braid and light mono. It is certainly worth a try, so give it a go and see what you come up with.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2020 10:11AM by Norman Miller.

Good stuff, Norm. You might also recommend a 4-guide reduction train if it is going to span that distance. Different groups are in our catalog.

Thanks Jim. Here is some information from Anglers Resource concerning KR guide groupings and includes various four guide reduction trains, which help control and direct the line flow more effectively into the runners on long and more parabolic rods.
[anglersresource.net]
Norm

Thank you very much for the detailed replies and info.

I asked the store where I source guides today, he actually suggested me a 4 guides train, which is actually one of the combinations on anglersresource, KL-H 25, 12, 7M, 6L. Then 9 KT 5 as running guides.

The problem is that he doesn't stock the gold colour belly guide I want, the IGKBSG. He only has the KL-H and KT in gold (IG) colour.

So instead, he suggested me to use all KT as running......

Do you think this is OK Norm? I'd really want to get the IGKBSG but seems I couldn't find it anywhere.....

Cheers.

Sure, many people use all KTs for their running guides. I would do a locking wrap for a little extra security against guide pullout, but I have to admit, I have never had a guide pullout on any rod I’ve built that didn’t have a locking wrap. However, I have seen guide pullout problems with a number of commercial rods using very small micro guides. The IG gold frame Is one of the new KR guide frame colors being introduced by Fuji, so it may take time for all sizes and styles to arrive. The KL25H based reduction train might be a little overkill for a size 2500 Diawa or Shimano reel, I would tend toward using a KL20H based reduction train (KL20H, KL10H, KL7M, and KL5.5L). It’s plenty high enough even for reels up to a 4000 to 5000 size.
Norm

Are you sourcing these guides here in the US or overseas? I have not seen these new colors from my normal US sources. I don’t know if Anglers Resource have them in stock or not.
Norm

When did guides cease to be manufactured and start being "conceived"?

I source them online from Asia Norm. The IG colour is rare. They have the KT and I have been waiting for 3 months for them to have the KL in stock. Still, they don't have KB. I can't even find the IGKBSG in Japan.......I wonder how often do Fuji produce them. It seems they only make the IG for special order.....

I am going to use 12lb mono mainline when fishing float and bait, and probably switch to PE for soft plastic lures.

Which train would be better? Stripper KL 25H or 20H?

Cheers.

From what I understand the IG is a brand new color, so it will take time to get them in stock. I'm sure Asia and Europe will get them first. The old Fuji gold frames were discontinued a while back, they corroded very easily and also didn't wear very well. Because of this they may be a tough sell to the American market. However, due to the way Fuji does things, I think this new finish will be more corrosion resistant, and more environmentally friendly to produce than the old gold guides.
Both the 20H and 25H based reduction trains will work just fine, I just don't think the 25H will enhance performance even when using 12lb mono, but it also will not hurt performance. You can use a 25H on a surf rod with a large reel, so I think it's a little overkill. But that would be your choice.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2020 10:49PM by Norman Miller.

Some follow up, and need some advice.

So I ended up getting a 4 reduction train, KL20H, 10H, 7M, and 5.5L, then 9 KT5 as runnings.

Again, here is the CTS guide placement suggestions:

From top to stripper, 13 guides in total, distance in mm: 125, 268, 428, 607, 803, 1017, 1245, 1487, 1743, 2016, 2314, 2638, 2988

When I use 4 guides reduction train now (instead of 3), shall I place them on a longer train? Or the same train distance as of 3, but more guides?

I assumed a longer train, so I place them on 2016, 2314, 2638, 2988, with the 1743 being the choker(a KT).

So now the reduction train distance is from 1743 to 2988 = 1245mm = 49in.

Now, according to the KR GPS for 13ft rod it showed the reduction train to be 49.56in. So, it makes sense, right?

But when I looked through the guides they did not show bulls eyes. I think the distance between the KL20 and 10 is too close (2638 to 2988).

So with the KL20 untouched, I moved the other 3 smaller KL forward (towards the rod tip) to get them bulls eye.

But when they are in perfect bulls eye, the distance between last reduction train guide (KL5.5) and the choker, is shorter than the next one (the choker to the next running guide, 1743 to 1478), which seems weird......

Shall I move the KL5.5 backward a bit to have the distance between it and choker larger than the next running guide spacing (1743 to 1478)?

Thanks....