Tried Flex Coat Lite for the first time and two coats on the guides look good, the problem is it did not come out well over a long decal. I put the decal down and covered it with a two thin coats of CP which worked out well, the problem occurred when I applied the Flex Coat Lite over the CP it came out lumpy and inconsistent. I tried removing as much as I could and ran a flame by the finish but it did not help. Can’t figure out if I did something wrong or lite is the wrong epoxy for long runs, I do use a spatula for all my epoxy work.

A question is this your first try at a decal ?? when you do A decal it take's a few tries to get some thing to work for you , [ for me it did ]
2 things # 1 apply it fast , # 2 had to apply the length of the decal to get it to look smooth , FAST ? it means don't drag your feet ,
That is what worked for me

William Sidney
AK

I use FC lite all the time. After I apply CP I let it set for about 24 hours before I apply FC. Haven't had an issue yet.

I think your problem is with the CP. Flex Coat Lite is what I have used for years and only recently experienced what you report after using a different CP. Use Flex Coat CP. If something else in my process changed other than the CP, I don't know what it was.

It wasn't the CP or the decal. You applied too much finish to the decal area. Going back and removing finish or "flaming" it generally tends to only make matters worse.

Keep in mind that the lower viscosity epoxies, such as the FC Lite, can't be applied as heavily as the higher build formulations. They won't support as much of themselves as the thicker viscosity finishes will. If you're going to use FC Lite over a decal and want a thicker end product, you may want to resign yourself to using two coats rather than trying to do it all with just one.

.............

While it may not be the CP, it may be. It may not be excessive finish. It may be a combination of a CP and finish that don't work together. Or it could be something else entirely.

When I experienced lumpy epoxy recently it was ONLY over the area to which CP had been applied. I was using a CP that I had not used with the epoxy before. The rest of the area was very smooth. I'm not saying positively that that is the cause in this case, but to rule it out with what was originally posted is IMO inappropriate.

It's not inappropriate if you know what the chemical base of the CP is and that most of them are the exact same product regardless of what company's packaging it comes in.


............

Most, possibly, but not all. So the ONLY possibility here is excessive epoxy?

By far the most likely culprit is excess epoxy. Dry CP isn't very likely to cause the problem as described. How would it do that? What mechanism would be in play to cause it to repel the epoxy?

...........

I don't know what that mechanism is, but I have experienced it, I believe. There are other variables that could be at work, but I cannot identify anything. Others have reported it either here or on another forum. What would cause epoxy to be wavy ONLY over the area covered by CP? Over the rest of the area, smooth. I don't know that either. My CP was bone dry, always is because I don't work on a rod after application until the next day. It is hard to ignore CP or some CP/epoxy interaction when ONLY the area over the CP is wavy.

Maybe areas covered by some CP's are more sensitive to excess epoxy? ? ? It is certainly logical that thinner epoxy would be less likely to be wavy simply because the coating is thinner. But in some cases CP seems to be having some effect.

Gotta go, thanks for your comments. But I have to admit I still don't think we understand what's going on.

Thinner epoxy will tend to be more wavy, not less, if you put on the same amount you would with a higher build epoxy.

If the epoxy on your wraps doesn't cause wavy finish, then the CP over the decal isn't going to cause it either.

It may be time for another Expo epoxy seminar, although they're pretty short. 99.9% of all these problems are solved in about 5 minutes. You can't always see everything that somebody is doing in a forum post, but in person, you can see things they're doing but perhaps not thinking about when they post. For instance, if somebody is thinning their CP, they may only be putting water on the decal in which case it is the lack of CP on the decal that causes lumps as the surface of the decal is repelling the epoxy.


..............

In almost every case, epoxy will be applied over CP! Thus if a CP is a problem, it would be quickly identified! Another issue that can cause waviness over a decal, is apply epoxy that has already began to set up....................it will not level!

Hi Frank, i,m just curious but what brand of CP did you use?

Phil, if partially set epoxy was my problem it would have been wavy all over, not just over the text which had CP on it. Guide wraps are much shorter than the decorative butt area, so waves don't show as much. On the particular rod I was doing there were only 3 guides that would be long enough to show waves, and they were not perfect. The other wraps were so short I didn't detect any problem. So why would I have wavy/lumpy epoxy ONLY above the CP area.

Tom, I don't put the same amount on when wanting a thinner coat. Even with lower viscosity epoxy. I follow your instructions and use less for a thinner coat.

If you never use CP on a rod, you will never have an issue with CP.

I, ordinarily don't use CP, unless specifically asked by the client to use the product. I simply do not like to use it.

Best wishes and stay safe

If you never use CP on a rod, you will never have an issue with CP.

I, ordinarily don't use CP, unless specifically asked by the client to use the product. I simply do not like to use it.

Best wishes and stay safe

Bill Sidney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A question is this your first try at a decal ??
> when you do A decal it take's a few tries to get
> some thing to work for you , [ for me it did ]
> 2 things # 1 apply it fast , # 2 had to
> apply the length of the decal to get it to look
> smooth , FAST ? it means don't drag your feet
> ,
> That is what worked for me

I like this advise, get in, get out, don't over work the decal. The adhesive from the decal could be the problem so take care to not smear it out on the blank. Any time finish pulls away from a material my mind goes to silicone contamination. Most production machinery is lubricated with silicone. Just my opinion of what the problem could be. Always keep your hands clean, clean your blank with citrus based cleaner.

You can also let the finish set in the mixing cup for a couple of minutes once mixed and then pour it out on aluminum foil and let it set there for a few more minutes. This will let the finish get further along in the chemical process and, in my experience, more able to hold in place and not pull away.

Good luck, hope this helps.

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

It's not just a decal problem that I had. The CP was over india ink text as well as just the edges of a Decal Connection peel and stick decal, a decal that has not caused problems before with Flex Coat CP. If I never used CP I would not be able to use india ink text, and all the pens I've tried make a line much too fat for me. WHEREVER THERE WAS CP UNDERNEATH (NOT FLEX COAT) IT WAS LUMPY, WHEREVER THERE WAS NOT CP UNDERNEATH IT WAS SMOOTH.

Frank, to get back to your post about the wavy epoxy and how to fix it if it happens again, I sand carefully with about 200 grit sandpaper on a block (the block helps to sand just the ridges). Be careful not to sand throgh! It often take 2 or 3 coats, sanding between, to get it level.

Michael,
Actually, it is pretty easy to use flex coat with no CP over india ink.

The secret is to never brush the flex coat in the area of the India ink. You simply need to put on about the right amount of finish on the blank in the areas of the India Ink, have the finish thin enough so that it flows nicely and then let the turning blank let the finish flow just enough so that it covers the ink with no brushing over the top of the finish.

If you take the slightly warm thin finish and brush it over the top of the india ink, you will brush away the ink.

But, if you just let the right amount of finish flow over the ink, with no applicator pressure over the top of the finish for smoothing, the ink will remain undisturbed. Practice on a couple of test inscriptions will give you the process to have a perfect inscription every time.

Take care

p.s
However, in recent years, I will also say, that I no longer use india Ink for inscriptions. Rather, I use Acrylic ink. Easier to use, less sensitive to the environment and equally attractive.

Michael,
Actually, it is pretty easy to use flex coat with no CP over india ink.

The secret is to never brush the flex coat in the area of the India ink. You simply need to put on about the right amount of finish on the blank in the areas of the India Ink, have the finish thin enough so that it flows nicely and then let the turning blank let the finish flow just enough so that it covers the ink with no brushing over the top of the finish.

If you take the slightly warm thin finish and brush it over the top of the india ink, you will brush away the ink.

But, if you just let the right amount of finish flow over the ink, with no applicator pressure over the top of the finish for smoothing, the ink will remain undisturbed. Practice on a couple of test inscriptions will give you the process to have a perfect inscription every time.

Take care

p.s
However, in recent years, I will also say, that I no longer use india Ink for inscriptions. Rather, I use Acrylic ink. Easier to use, less sensitive to the environment and equally attractive.