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Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---)
Date: June 21, 2020 11:00AM

Just static tested my Point Blank PB731MXF and everything looked good with 2 line test. My only question is should the line touch the top of the guide closest to the reel, Mine runs right through the center of the guide, line follows guide for the most part under tension, just wondering about that first guide or does that matter. It is 21" in front of the reel( from the line guide of the reel). Thanks.

Keith Langford

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 21, 2020 02:13PM

That should not be a problem I've used that blank and it's a good one. I have not noticed the line touching, but the only time I've probably stressed it that much was on fighting a fish, and was too busy to notice;
I think my first guide is probably at 20 inches. My reel is a Daiwa Tatula 103. Will measure it if you want me to.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 21, 2020 03:04PM

I also have my stripper at 20”, but 21” should be fine. If you like the way it casts then go with it. The butt section on that blank is not going to do a lot of flexing.
Norm

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: June 21, 2020 07:53PM

I'm assuming casting rod, and that you mean that the line is running through the center of the butt guide, with no load on the rod? If yes is the answer to both of my assumptions I'm just wondering what you're using for your butt guide, and what reel do you have on the rod?

If it's running through the center I am thinking you have a taller butt guide, or a very low profile reel. I don't have any casting rods where the line doesn't touch the top of the butt guide. Not saying it isn't going to work. Just asking out of curiosity.

If it's a casting rod and the line is running through the center of the butt guide with the rod under a load, I would ask what size guides you're using, because I would think that would be odd? I would think that guide spacing would have the line touching the bottom of each guide with the rod under a load. If it isn't touching the bottom of the butt guide, you could probably push the guide next to it further away.

These guys know a lot more than me about this stuff. Once again, I'm just asking out of curiosity, with the possibility of learning something.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---)
Date: June 21, 2020 08:21PM

David, casting rod. Butt guide is KW 10 followed by KW 5.5 followed by KB 5 and KT 5, 10 guides total plus tip top. I just moved the butt guide to 20" from reel ( Diawa Steez ). I started at 9 cm behind tip top and added 1 cm for first 3 guides and 1 1/2 cm for the rest, that covered all the KT and KB guides, so I ended up with 30 CM between the last KB and the KW 10, I split the difference and placed the KW5.5 at 15 cm. Maybe Norman can chime in since he pretty much gave me the guide train and layout. I have not retested since moving the butt guide from 21 to 20 " This is only my 3rd build but the first two turned out extremely well with the guidance of this forum.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 21, 2020 08:52PM

You could always move to a slightly higher framed butt guide, or use the next larger size to get that line contact. I wouldn't move what you have now out to awful far. I think 20 to 21 inches is about as far out as I'd go.

.............

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 22, 2020 12:11AM

Keith, you lost your progressive spacing when you neared the stripper. David is correct your KW5.5 needs to be further away from the stripper. If I read your measurements correctly your stripper is about 137cm from the tip top. To fill this space with 10 guides you need to place the guides in the tip section closer together. You need to understand the tip section undergoes more bending than the butt section, thus the guides need to be a little closer together. Since the butt section undergoes less bending the guides can be spaced further apart. The following guide spacing is an example which would fill that space nicely.
From the tip in centimeters:
9
18.5 (+9.5)
28.5 (+10)
39.5 (+11)
51.5 (+12)
64.5 (+13)
79 (+14.5)
95.5 (+16.5)
114.5 (+19)
137 (+22.5)
This should put the stripper about 20" in front of the reel, which gives 13" from the front of the spool to the butt for a total length of 87". This should get the line on the ring of the stripper when the rod is loaded. You could use this spacing for a spiral wrap, or you could modify the spacing somewhat and use 9 guides total. As mentioned in your most recent post, there is no down side to using a spiral wrap, and you can get away with fewer guides.
Norm

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: June 22, 2020 06:38PM

Keith, I see by a thread you recently started that you may be considering making this rod a spiral wrap. I have an opinion on that, but it doesn't mirror what others posted in your aforementioned thread, so I will keep that to myself. As far as this thread goes. I will just say that on a casting rod, there is only one guide I don't let static loading tell me where it's going to be, and that is the butt guide. I place every other guide using static load.

Personally, I think using progressive spacing is the wrong way to go, as it doesn't take into account the action of the blank being used. Different actions require different guide locations. And that goes for a conventionally wrapped rod, or a spiral wrapped rod. A moderate or moderate fast action under a load, is going to flex more in a different area of the blank than a fast or extra fast action blank is going to. Using progressive guide spacing isn't going to account for that. IMO, on a casting rod, static guide placement is the way to go. It puts the guides where they need to be, not where they look the prettiest.

If someone has feelings to the contrary, I'd love to hear them. I am always up to learn something new.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 22, 2020 06:40PM

I typically use a RV 6 for a stripper with the line at center ring usually at 20" or 21" from the reel face or level wind. The reels are Shimano Curado, Metanium, Core, Aldebaran or 13 Fishing A, and Z low profile. Works great for me. The Fuji PB blanks need the guides spaced somewhat closer together near the tip section because of the larger butt section of the blank that does not bend as much. If your static test looks good, you should be alright.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 22, 2020 07:58PM

I have never met a rod blank that doesn’t bend progressively. I do a static test and move guides here and there depending on the rod bend, but still get a progressive spacing. Basically what progressive spacing means is closer together in the tip section moving farther apart as you progress down the blank. The tip bends more and the butt less. Each blank has its unique bend profile which should be taken into account. What happened in Keith’s situation is he had non progressive spacing where the guides were closer together in the butt section then the guides further forward toward the tip, this was causing the problems he was having. He was smart enough to realize he had a problem. In my opinion, if the guides are closer together in the butt section then they are toward the tip something is wrong. So I basically gave him the spacing I used for my PB731MXF casting rod. Slightly different handle length, so slightly different spacing. The spacing I gave him should static test quite well, and will cast great. I have found that progressive spacing not only looks better but also performs very well.
I have become a recent convert to the spiral wrap, I find that it works very well, and you can use fewer guides to boot with no loss of performance. However, to each their own, different people are different, and have different likes and dislikes. You do it your way and I’ll do it my way, that’s the way it should be.
Norm

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 23, 2020 07:47AM

I misread the original post. My first guide is at 20 inches. I find that the simple spiral works fine, but I don't build many because I can't seem to get beyond what I perceive as a "goofy look." But they work fine.

Regarding "progressive blanks," I just finished a Point Blank that wanted a little deviation from progressive. Even the software recommends a non-progressive placement of the spin reduction guides, if I remember correctly. I'm working on a two piece MHX spin that wants a slight deviation from progressive. (two line stress test). With micro guides the guides seem to disappear so non-progressive doesn't get attention like it used to with bigger guides. IMO. I doubt it moving the guides slightly to get progressive would be a significant change in performance. I don't think it's as critical as we tend to make it. But having said that, it sure is nice to see the line going "properly" through the guides on a well-designed highly stressed rod.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: June 23, 2020 10:33AM

Norman, would that guide layout remain the same with the simple spiral, with the addition of a rub reduction guide where the line touches the blank at 90 degrees. Thank you.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 23, 2020 11:12AM

Yes. However, you can do a spiral wrap in a number of different ways. In addition to the simple spiral, you can do a more gradual spiral to the bottom. I like the 0, 60, and 120 degrees to180 degrees layout. The spacing stays the same. I will offset the stripper a little if I get line piling up on one side of the reel. Play with it and see which you prefer. Just temporarily attach the guides in the various configurations and test cast. It’s not only fun but also educational, and allows for you to do it your way in an informed fashion. A little time spent playing now, will make things much easier and faster with future builds, because you’ll have more insight into laying out a guide train.
Norm

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: June 23, 2020 11:31AM

Thank you Norman, for a right hand reel would you offset the stripper to the left or right. I think I saw this in a video somewhere, the first guide was offset so the edge of the guide ring was centered on the blank, but I dont remember which way or who did the video.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 23, 2020 12:13PM

Most like to rotate to the handle side to keep the guides off the deck when the rod is laid down with the reel handle up. Others rotate to the opposite side because it gives a more balanced look. Your choice. As far as off setting the stripper, it just a matter of winding line on the reel and seeing what happens. I tend to off set in the same direction as the spiral.
Norm

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 23, 2020 02:47PM

Just an observation; when I set my reel down I always do it toward the handle so it rest on the handle and not the flat side of the reel. There is always some kind of dirt or sand and I don't want my expensive reel laying on its flat side in it but rather propped up on the handle and the bottom reel seat / trigger, out of the muck. I also cast a right hand reel with my right hand, so casting over my shoulder from right to left (most common stance) puts the line off the blank with a left spiral guide orientation. I don't do it for a balanced look but I do like the idea.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: June 23, 2020 04:50PM

Norman, I get what you're saying. But on slower action blanks the tip doesn't bend as much as it does further down the blank. I've only built three rods that weren't either fast or extra fast action blanks. All three of them have a moderate fast action. Two of them being crankbait rods, the other being a high powered blank that I use for flipping and pitching. On the two crankbait rods, my running guides in the tip section are further apart than my running guides closer to my reduction train. If they weren't, the line would touch the blank in that section of the rod. I guess I could move the guides in the tip closer together but there is no need to, because the tip is straight when the rod is fully loaded. And that's what I was referring to in my prior post. If the blank is straight under a load, why put a guide there?

Personally I've never tried to predetermine where the guides were going to go on a casting rod. I'm not saying my way is right or that anyone else's way is wrong, I'm just saying how I do it. I mount the butt guide and the tip top. All the other guides are simply threaded on the line that runs from the reel through the tip top. I tie a 1/4 oz weight to that line. I use a second line to load the rod. After that I start placing guides. Starting with the guide next to the butt guide, and I work towards the tip. Static load placement pretty much ensures a progressive spacing in the butt section of the rod, and doing it that way in my eyes, saves a step. I don't have to move guides around, they are IMO, where they need to be from the very get go. There are times where I have a little more distance between the guides in the tip than there should be, so instead of moving the other guides. I just add a guide. I use either size 4.5 or size 5 guides as running guides. I'm not worried about that little bit of extra weight. The way I see it with the way I sometimes land fish, that extra guide gives me a little peace of mind.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---)
Date: June 27, 2020 09:59AM

I have one last question, on this thread anyway, If I am going to build a spiral wrap, when I static test the rod, should the guides be as in finished position, IE on bottom of blank or should they all be on top of the blank for this portion of testing. Thank you.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: June 27, 2020 10:56AM

In the finished position, looking for the guides to follow the bend in the blank.

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Re: Static Test Results
Posted by: Keith Langford (---)
Date: June 27, 2020 12:45PM

Thank you as always Norman, is there any advantage over how you lay out the spiral compared to the simple spiral or is it just ascetics. Guess I lied, here is another question. Sorry guy's just trying to learn everything I can.

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