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guide numbers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: May 23, 2020 08:42AM

Guides keep lines moving straight through the guide train and keep lines from flopping around becoming fouled. More guides add leveraged weight, which is bad. Monofilament lines are several times stiffer than gel-spun braids and behave differently while moving through the guide train, but this difference isn't recognized in charts for the numbers and spacing of guides. Should it be?

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 23, 2020 04:35PM

I believe it is going to depend on the size of the guide ring and the height from the blank. I really haven't noticed that great of a difference, if any, when going from mono to braid. Of course I probably use too many guides anyway. I will put 9 guides on an up to 7' rod with the guide train being RV 6, KB 5 and the rest of the train being KB and KT 4s. Most of these rods come out to less than 3 oz total weight. If you use a lightweight reel the whole thing will be less than 1/2 lb. You are probably correct, they should recognize it but you (as me) most likely have your own formula for guide placement and the amount that goes on the blank.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 23, 2020 05:35PM

sometimes i think i go back too far..i remember when a 5' ultralight looked like a miniature surf rod..the four guides they used were surf rod size..the poor little rod could barely support the guides..lol. just the butt guide weighed more than the eight guides plus the epoxy saturated wraps used today..i just don,t see how it,s possable to use too many guides..they are weighed in grains..grains are used to weigh gun powder..lol.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Terry Kirk (---)
Date: May 24, 2020 03:34PM

It is really simple for me. I haven't used anything but braid since it came to market but i bet i couldn't tell the difference in guide trains if using mono..

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: May 25, 2020 10:59AM

As far as I can tell the addition of guides slows the action of the blank somewhat and also creates "flat spots" in the bend of the rod. The difference may not be noticeable, but given the meticulous attention to detail of many rod-builders I'm surprised this point isn't raised more often.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 25, 2020 05:44PM

Phil, i guess ten double foot guides would create twenty flat spots but ten single foot guides would make ten flat spots, therefore the single foots would be better than the doubles..i guess..lol..or maybe the ten doubles would make ten longer flat spots..

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: May 25, 2020 05:59PM

Ben: Don't forget each guide adds friction to a guide train, especially small guides which cause the line to rub against their surfaces more often. This must shorten the cast.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 25, 2020 08:01PM

i got way more casting distance than i need now, Phil..i don,t mind giving up some distance to make a better more responsive fish fighting rod by simply using a couple more well placed guides..

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 26, 2020 09:03AM

I've never seen any evidence that a couple extra guides shortens casts or causes flat spots. I always seem to end up + 1 on spin and +2 with micro on-top casting builds. I don't even see any kind of logic that would support the idea that more guides cause flat spots. I admit I don't know everything, ask my wife, but have a lot of experience building and using rods. I use the Fuji KW GPS for spin, always use braid, and simply follow the software for the reduction train, and the rods work.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 26, 2020 09:08AM

Ben,
Only you can make the evaluation.

But to get the best idea for your self, purchase two new identical blanks for the type fishing you wish to do.

Build one rod with what you think are the minimum number of blanks.

Then, build the 2nd one, using 3 FEWER guides.

Go fish with each rod and catch 50 fish on each rod.

Do an evaluation and write a report about the ease or difficulty in using one rod compared to the other.

Then, do a final summary statement on which rod you are going to rebuild because you like it less than the other one.

I suspect that you might be surprised at what you find.

---------------------------------------------------------
The reason that I suggest fewer guides on an identical blank is that so many new custom rod builders assume that things will always be better by adding more guides. However, I will leave it up to you to reach your own conclusion.

Take care



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2020 09:11AM by roger wilson.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 26, 2020 12:12PM

Roger, no doubt what you say is true years ago when fresh water guides were built like todays surf rod guides..todays guides are in another world and if you can keep the epoxy application as light as possable, two or three more guides will go unnoticed but the rods responce to load transfers will be noticed, especially quick transfers. remember your adding these guides to the whole train not just the tip end..your repositioning all the guides..all the gaps are getting shorter and a little less soft and better at transfering the load down the rod..jmo.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 26, 2020 02:23PM

Roger, I need you to take me fishing with my two new builds so I can learn how to catch a hundred fish in a reasonable length of time. :-)

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: May 27, 2020 12:11PM

As the number and size of fish caught in the last 60 years has sharply decreased the technology and cost of fishing tackle has increased just as rapidly. I'm not entirely pleased with the trade-off.

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Re: guide numbers
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 28, 2020 08:01PM

Michael,
It is very simple.

Go to a spot where there plenty of fish of the spieces that you wish to target.

Go on a day which has had several days of low pressure.

Use each of your rods, t deliver the right lure, technique or live bait to your target and you will come home with your limits of fish, plus many more that you had to release.

Take care

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