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Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Doug Goar (---)
Date: May 21, 2020 09:05PM

I have a nice conventional muskie rod that I'm going to convert to spiral wrap for use as a heavy duty saltwater casting rod. The rod is a St. Croix 8 foot heavy moderate rod model PGM80HM which can handle 40-80 pound test line and 1-8 ounce lures. Guides from the tip are located #1 at 3.25", #2 at 7.25", #3 at 12.25", #4 at 18.25", #5 at 25.5", #6 at 24", #7 at 44", #8 at 56.5, Reel seat center at 80".I'm going to set this for a left handed reel so guide placement will be clockwise around the blank when viewed from the butt. With 0 degrees being the full up of the current rod build, the tip and guides #1-#6 will be rotated 180 degrees on the rod. Guide #7 will be rotated clockwise to the 90 degree position. Guide #8 will remain as is. Then I will add two low profile guides such as Fuji KB Belly guides, one between Guides #6 and #7 at 135 degrees and one between Guides #7 and #8 at 45 degrees. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 21, 2020 10:35PM

Leave the butt guide where it is. Rotate ALL the rest of the guides to the 180 degree position. These should all be the same size.

If you object to the lie rubbing the blank between the butt and 2nd guide, install a single guide at 90 degrees between those first two but do not alter the spacing between those guides.

...................

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 21, 2020 11:29PM

In addition to Mr. Kirkman's statement - carefully test for line stacking to one side on the reel with your new setup.

After i have the spiral guide setup and taped to the blank, I will run the line from the reel through all of the guides and pull off about a 100 feet and let it stack up on the floor.

Then I hold medium tension on the line. I normally run the line through a couple of toes on my stocking foot for the medium tension. Then, I will just reel the line back onto the rod, without touching the line with my hand as I am reeling it back on the rod.

For myself, I have found that for every rod that I have spiral wrapped, I have had to offset the stripper guide by about 5 degrees in one direction or the other to get the line to stack evenly on the reel. This is even with a line centering guide on the reel that oscillates back and forth to center the line.

Go figure why it happens, but it has certainly happened to me on every spiral wrapped rod that I have built.

If you find that the line is stacking to one side, remove the thread wraps on the stripper guide and try rotating it 5 degrees to the right and retest. Then test it again with 5 degrees to the left. If you find that one direction helps the stacking but does not eliminate it, then try another 3 or so degrees in the same direction.

Although the stationary stripper and the next guide at 180 works, I prefer to place the stripper at + or - 5 degrees, depending on the need for no line stacking. Then, the next guide at 45 degrees, the 3rd guide at 120 degrees and the 4th guide at 180 degrees. In this case, both the 2nd, and the 3rd guide need to have the bottom of the ring as close to the blank as possible since these are the guides that are directing the line around the blank and I don't like to have the line rubbing on the blank. But the line can be very close to the blank without actually touching it.

---
Also, consider the potential of increasing the spacing on the guides if you wish. You no longer have the issue of the line touching the blank or going under the blank, since after the line has gotten to the bottom of the blank, it is already on the bottom of the blank. For the runners on a spiral wrapped rod, the spacing for a given blank for can be essentially identical as to what one would use for the guide spacing on the same blank if it were wrapped as a spinning rod. There is a potential guide count reduction of 1-3 guides with a spiral wrapped rod.

Best wishes.

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Doug Goar (---)
Date: May 22, 2020 01:31PM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leave the butt guide where it is. Rotate ALL the
> rest of the guides to the 180 degree position.
> These should all be the same size.
>
> If you object to the lie rubbing the blank between
> the butt and 2nd guide, install a single guide at
> 90 degrees between those first two but do not
> alter the spacing between those guides.
>
> ...................
That's interesting. No 90 degree guide. I use braided line and I've seen how quickly it can cut through most plastics and fiberglass and even some older metal guides. Almost like a bandsaw. That said, however, there are some extreme anti-friction tapes available that could be used on the line to rod rub point so that neither the rod nor the line would be damaged. That would allow eliminating the 90 degree guide which should make the whole guide chain more efficient.

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Doug Goar (---)
Date: May 22, 2020 01:46PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In addition to Mr. Kirkman's statement - carefully
> test for line stacking to one side on the reel
> with your new setup.
>
> After i have the spiral guide setup and taped to
> the blank, I will run the line from the reel
> through all of the guides and pull off about a 100
> feet and let it stack up on the floor.
>
> Then I hold medium tension on the line. I
> normally run the line through a couple of toes on
> my stocking foot for the medium tension. Then, I
> will just reel the line back onto the rod, without
> touching the line with my hand as I am reeling it
> back on the rod.
>
> For myself, I have found that for every rod that I
> have spiral wrapped, I have had to offset the
> stripper guide by about 5 degrees in one
> direction or the other to get the line to stack
> evenly on the reel. This is even with a line
> centering guide on the reel that oscillates back
> and forth to center the line.
>
> Go figure why it happens, but it has certainly
> happened to me on every spiral wrapped rod that I
> have built.
>
> If you find that the line is stacking to one side,
> remove the thread wraps on the stripper guide and
> try rotating it 5 degrees to the right and retest.
> Then test it again with 5 degrees to the left.
> If you find that one direction helps the stacking
> but does not eliminate it, then try another 3 or
> so degrees in the same direction.
>
> Although the stationary stripper and the next
> guide at 180 works, I prefer to place the
> stripper at + or - 5 degrees, depending on the
> need for no line stacking. Then, the next guide at
> 45 degrees, the 3rd guide at 120 degrees and the
> 4th guide at 180 degrees. In this case, both the
> 2nd, and the 3rd guide need to have the bottom of
> the ring as close to the blank as possible since
> these are the guides that are directing the line
> around the blank and I don't like to have the
> line rubbing on the blank. But the line can be
> very close to the blank without actually touching
> it.
>
> ---
> Also, consider the potential of increasing the
> spacing on the guides if you wish. You no longer
> have the issue of the line touching the blank or
> going under the blank, since after the line has
> gotten to the bottom of the blank, it is already
> on the bottom of the blank. For the runners on a
> spiral wrapped rod, the spacing for a given blank
> for can be essentially identical as to what one
> would use for the guide spacing on the same blank
> if it were wrapped as a spinning rod. There is a
> potential guide count reduction of 1-3 guides with
> a spiral wrapped rod.
>
> Best wishes.

I've thought about the 5 degree offset to compensate for the possibility of line clustering on one edge of the reel. Based on my prior response, so I don't have a 90 degree guide, would it be possible to leave both of my guides #7 and #8 at 0 degrees and then rotate the rest of the guide chain to 180 degrees? That would mean that the line passes through two guides before hitting the reel which in my mind should neutralize the tendency for line buildup at one side of the reel spool. Thoughts on this?

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 22, 2020 01:47PM

also without the 90* guide it,s easy to swing the line around the butt to the other side of the rod incase of line stacking..

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 22, 2020 02:21PM

You can put a 90 degree guide there to prevent rub, but don't change the spacing of the butt and 2nd guide. Leave them as they were originally and just put the 90 degree guide between them. That way it will only serve to prevent line rub and will not actually carry any side load.

.........

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: May 22, 2020 07:20PM

I would use a small KB at 90 and do as Tom says.

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 22, 2020 08:26PM

all the spirals i ever made were simple spirals and i didn,t use a bumper guide..just ran the line from the reel straight to the first 180 guide..i remember Tom once saying that if you didn,t want to use a bumper guide you could coat that part of the rod with permagloss which wears like iron..i never got around to using PG, never needed it..about stacking, it was never a problem for me and i think because i located the first 180 guide up the rod a little more than needed but reduced the angle the line took to the reel and not using a bumper reduced that angle a little more..also if any stacking occured, i could simply swing the line around the butt to the other side of the rod and unstack the build up but i never had to..

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Re: Converting conventional rod to spiral wrap
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: May 24, 2020 06:25PM

I've never had a simple spiral, which is what Tom K is describing, pack the line on the reel. I've heard of many reports of stacking from builders who offset that first guide from 0 degrees to get started on the getting of the blanks to the bottom. Follow Tom's advice. It will work fine. And no stacking worries.

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