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Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Frank DAleo (---.t-mobile.com)
Date: April 16, 2020 10:24AM

Good Morning All,

I have been browsing this forum for a few years, reading, getting ideas and most importantly, learning from each of you!

The question I have is whether or not I should re wrap 8 guides because of being way too tight? Unfortunately, I did not check the play in the guides for alignment purposes, until I was ready to align! They were so tight, that I had to use a thread pic with a rubber handle, by inserting it into the eye and twist it so the guide foots "walked into place."

From what I read, many failures come from the rod breaking from the guide feet.

The second rod I made sure the tension was perfect!

Some basic information about the build:

Bunker Spoon Rod

1. Lamiglass BBT 963
2. Size A underthread
3 Carboloy
4 Size D double wrapped

Regards,

FD

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 11:09AM

Frank, try brushing water onto the wrap to relax the nylon thread or if your going to use CP, it will relax thread also..let dry for a couple days before finishing..since i normally use CP, this makes it easier to pull tag ends under my guide wraps which are too tight from packing..

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 11:42AM

How did you initially try to move them into alignment? Perhaps the 2nd build is too loose???
I assume that you needed the pick on the small guides - and the large guides could be used as levers to move them???

I guess I'm concerned that you have no basis of comparison re degree of difficulty of moving wrapped guides.
Herb

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 16, 2020 11:52AM

Frank,
You were able to move the guides. Fine.
Do a final check on the alignment, coat the rod and go fishing.

Whenever I wrap a rod, I tie the guides on tight enough so that I can just barely move them using both fingers of a strong hand. I have never had a blank failure after wrapping from thread too tight after wrapping literally hundreds of rods.


Take care

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: April 16, 2020 01:03PM

Since there is under thread I see no problems.
Align, coat and go.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: April 16, 2020 01:43PM

The BBT is a durable blank, do what you think is right.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Frank DAleo (---.t-mobile.com)
Date: April 16, 2020 05:10PM

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did you initially try to move them into
> alignment? Perhaps the 2nd build is too loose???
> I assume that you needed the pick on the small
> guides - and the large guides could be used as
> levers to move them???
>
> I guess I'm concerned that you have no basis of
> comparison re degree of difficulty of moving
> wrapped guides.
> Herb

Thanks for the feedback Herb. The 2nd builds' guides moved with pressure from my fingers, with effort, without having to use a "tool' like the first build.

I am getting used to a new wrapper. The manufacturer recommended that the positioning of the tension rod should be to determine thread tension. I would have never thought how tight it would have. I've built and repaired rods using a bobbin and self made power wrapper, and though the wraps were snug, the guide was able to be adjusted with pressure from just using my hand. Guess i have to get used to this new wrapper and check the tension throughout the build.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 07:20PM

Gotcha Frank.
BTW - what new thread tensioner are you using now?
Herb

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Frank DAleo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 09:34PM

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gotcha Frank.
> BTW - what new thread tensioner are you using
> now?
> Herb

Hi Herb...purchased the CRB system a while ago with the HW-1 wrapper. The video states to keep the tension rod towards you...this is way too tight I think. it looks like they changed the design and dont even use the tension rod anymore. For the price its ok..it gets the job done. I am not too familiar with other set ups, but seems the tension has to be readjusted at times. When i first learned with the bobbin, i had a visual and the feel of what the tension should be. Trial and error.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Frank DAleo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 10:05PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frank,
> You were able to move the guides. Fine.
> Do a final check on the alignment, coat the rod
> and go fishing.
>
> Whenever I wrap a rod, I tie the guides on tight
> enough so that I can just barely move them using
> both fingers of a strong hand. I have never had a
> blank failure after wrapping from thread too tight
> after wrapping literally hundreds of rods.
>
>
> Take care

Thank you Roger for the feedback!

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Frank DAleo (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 16, 2020 10:09PM

Thank you to all who took the time to read and provide feedback!

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: April 17, 2020 02:00PM

I bought an HW-1 recently. I had built about twenty-five rods using the old "C" clamp with spool/tensioner welded to the side system that was sold in the 1980's, and a bobbin holder from my fly tying tools. A buddy has let me use his power wrapper a few times, too. The one I bought still has the tension rod configured to point rearward. There seems to be a small range on the tensioner screw between wrapping too tight and not having enough resistance for smooth feeding of the thread. I did get it work amply, though. Using a bobbin holder seems to be the ultimate control possible while also being slow and a bit tedious. I saw a guy on YouTube using a power wrapper with a bobbin holder, though. His kit was an interesting mix of technology eras.

Whether it's different kinds of hand or power wrapping, it seems to take me about a build to adjust to the unique variables of a new system. I wrapped my second rod a couple of days ago on the HW-1, and I was much faster with better tension control. Stick with it, Frank, you'll soon get it down-pat.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: April 18, 2020 09:35PM

Frank, I wrap my guides tight as well. Not as tight as you described on that first rod, but tight enough that I sometimes have to use a fingernail to push the guide foot to straighten it out. I personally don't use a tension rod. I had one on a hand wrapper that I built but I didn't like it. It was just another thing to be in the way of my hands when I do a trim band or a thread inlay in a wrap. I just go straight from the spool, to the blank.

I looked up the wrapper you mentioned having, and it has the same spring tension at the spool that my power wrapper has. If I can make a suggestion that made getting a good consistent thread tension more easy? I got a set or rare earth magnets to put in place of the springs. They're much smoother working than the spring tension, and IMO they're easier to make small adjustments on as well.

I picked mine up from a place that used to be a sponsor of this board, but I don't see their name on the left anymore. Because of that I'm not sure if it's ok to mention their name. If Tom happens to check in on this thread and says it's ok to mention their name, I gladly will. Otherwise, maybe a Google search for rare earth magnets for fishing rod building equipment may reveal something.

They're worth searching for.

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Re: Wrapped Too Tight
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 18, 2020 10:28PM

Frank,
Here is a picture of the thread and tension and rod being built.


[www.rodbuilding.org]

The thread stand is a piece of 1 inch thick nylon in which are a couple of holes that hold the pins for thread. Then, the tension stand is mounted at the back of the thread stand. At the end of the stand is the thread tension device that is essentially identical to the millions of sewing machines used every day to make millions of pieces of clothing every day. Millions and millions or yards of sewing thread are run through these tension devices with 0 issues.

I have never had any issues at all using the simple disk style thread tension device. Smooth, easy to dial in the tension perfectly and no issues.

HOWEVER, do not use this type tension device with metallic thread. It does not work. But I have never ever wrapped a single guide with metallic thread. Metallic threads for main guide wraps simply don't work for me. I use metallic thread all of the time, but I cut off a two foot section of thread and just hold the tension on the thread by hand and that also does not give me any issues.

I have a smooth rod building bench. The nylon bottom of the thread tension device base rests against the back side of the power wrapper. Then, as the guide is wrapped, I just move the tension device up and down the rod blank as needed.

I have wrapped hundreds of rods using this simple thread tension device and have not had any issues and have never needed anything else to supply tension to the thread. I also do not use any sort of spring between the tension device and the rod blank. Just no need.

I have a reverse on my power wrapper motor, so if I need to back up for any reason, I just grab the thread between the tension device and the rod blank to maintain the thread tension as I back up, and then pull the thread back through the tension device to maintain the thread tension when I remove my hand. Simply easy and it works all of the time with 0 changes in the tension.

I have tried both springs and magnets on spools for tension devices, but no thanks - I pass.

Simple works and gives me steady constant tension on the threads.

==============================
This is the thread tension device that I use on my thread setup:
[www.mudhole.com]
I use an oak stick, drill an undersized hole and press the device into the hole and drill a hole in the other end of the stick and support it between two angle brackets with a bolt and wing nut running through the hole to tension the stick to hold it in its desired poition.


Take care



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2020 10:33PM by roger wilson.

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