I've always used a nail knot with 4 threads to make a narrow trim band next to wraps and for length markers on rods. I've used 4 because using only three always tended to slip. I recently tried a three with the change of putting the tag end through twice, and lo and behold it held well during the trimming process. This is offered as a tip to those who, like I did, was stuck in my ways and didn't try something new.

I also use single thread trim on the ends of other wraps by wrapping another thread on the end then pulling it under after one thread around the blank, which works well, too.

Anything else I'm missing on doing narrow trims along side other wraps or stand alone bands? thanks

I HATE wrapping trim bands. HATE metallic even more. Especially on the tip section of a flyrod.
Any way one looks at it - they are a pita and add much too much time to the building process. Doing one now for an old friend - because he loves them.
I build only fr performance now - past 8 years - so when someone asks for them it's like - NO NO NO.
Sorry for venting.
Herb

There are several schools of thought in play here. I have secured a super-narrow trim band with clip-on weights on both ends of the thread wrap, maintaining tension while I applied a needle-point speck of super glue - at the "X" where the wrapping thread crosses. Then careful use of a fresh, double-edge razor blade on the tag ends of the wraps, maintaining SLIGHT thread tension parallel to the blank while the razor blade is laid flat, slid along the rod blank and just touched to the taut thread tag ends. Nobody has yet been able to spot the speck of super-glue under the epoxy finish.

Herb, you hit a nerve..i hate trim bands too..any kind of thread art..it doesn,t add anything to a rod..once i see it, i say that,s nice and i don,t want to see it again, once is enough..lol..we,re going to get an ear full now..lol.

Herb, I know how you feel, but still like them so much I do them. Interestingly , I just finished a rod using an old spool of Gudbrod HT metallic and it handles so much better than one of the biggest brands of current metallic.

Phil, I've used the super glue trick too, but it will stain non NCP (regular) thread at the point of application, and I don't like the look of NCP, so I've given up on that.

I too tend to keep things simple because I don't have the patience to do the complicated thread art. ;Plus, some of it looks really gaudy and unappealing to me. But some is so beautifull it should go into a museum. I really like simple feather inlays, and they are very easy and fast compared to a lot of thread art. I really like some of the thread art, but don't value it enough to do it.

thanks for the comments.

Michael and others,
My guide wraps tend to be a bit more involved with trim bands, inlays, modified vine leafs, open spirals and such because I rarely do butt wraps but like the subtle elegance afforded in the other threadwork. While obviously requiring more time than a single color, plain wrap, after a little practice they can be included with only a couple minutes of additional time.
I do not understand the purpose or benefit of installing a separate trim band next to a base wrap; it takes too much time and the narrow trim band is fragile and susceptible to going “boink!”. I make the trim band and base wrap at the same time by the simple method of adding and dropping threads. Start as any other wrap with the trim color with two or more rotations over the tag and simply add the base color after the desired width of the trim is wrapped by placing the base color tag under the trim color lead thread. Since the trim color we now want to drop is on the right (when wrapping left to right), make one rotation with both the trim and base colored threads side-by-side. Use a finger to hold tension on the wrapped threads, cut the trim color, unwind it one turn and tuck it under the base color thread, now the lead thread, secure with a few rotations, trim and continue with the rest of the base wrap. This method allows for trim wraps with as few as two threads; for single thread trim bands, I use the method I think Michael was mentioning in his original post.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Tape your Trim thread parallel to the blank and also a tie-off loop next to it. Start wrapping the main wrap (over the trim thread and the tie-off loop of course), and after 3-5 turns make your trim band as narrow or wide as you wish and pull through with the tie-off loop.
Trim tag ends when secured. Easy peasy and no worries about a knot coming undone.

Hi all,
To clarify.
I don't mind looking at other's thread work.
I just don't like to do it. Like I gave up stabilized wood rings in grips - I gave up trim bands in favor of simple one color wraps.
I did it for my sanity - speed of finishing the build. Except for one or two friends I build (favors) for - the people I build for don't want it or don't need it.
Herb

Mike’s method will certainly work as well. Since I had not thought or heard of it, I tried it a half dozen times with good results. Two things were observed though; the trim thread has to bend 90* when starting to wrap around the blank and even with twisting the thread tighter, could leave a slight puffy spot just as it appears from under the main wrap (possibly paying attention to the direction of the inherent thread twist could minimize or eliminate this); as we all have experienced, tying-off with a pull-through loop can distort the edge of the wrap, even though it can manipulated back into place to some extent. When adding and dropping threads, the threads are basically aligned with the wrap and no pull-through loop is required. On a more positive side, Mike’s method allows one to END a wrap with a very narrow trim band which does not work well with the adding/dropping threads method I described. So thank you Mike; you taught me something I can and will use. I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Herb and ben,
I am jealous of those who easily get hundreds of dollars for a custom rod with simple wraps. I find potential customer squawking about the price if I try to make $50.00 labor for a rod which requires eight hours on the guide wraps alone.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, might work better to work at minimum wage, right? thanks to all for their contributions.

Mark, it,s very simple..just make simple rods with simple wraps and maybe use a simple spiral..lol.

Ahhhh
Mark
So it's not just me that takes that long.
Herb

I do it the way that Mike outlined. In my opinion, it looks much cleaner than wrapping it separate and sliding into place.

Herb and ben (again),
Thanks for simplifying things for me!?!?!?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Mark, I do not know what your market is, but if I couldn't get way over $50.00 labor for a build, I'd tell them to go to Walmart! As you know I only build fly rods and maybe there is a difference in clientele.

I have recently built rods that went for $950.00 and some in the $600.00-800,00 range. One of my rods in the Cal Trout @#$%& last year went for $1300.00

These performance rods not show pieces, but they do include one of my exotic wood custom grips.

Almost all of my business is from'word of mouth."

'Plain Jane', nothing but efficiency and the lightest weight possible rods are such a piece of cake to build!!! Of course I would use nothing but Black size A nylon. And I would throw the option out, to this highest level hunter of fish, that I would put Forhan locking wraps on these light single foot guides but that would add about 5 wraps of thread per guide which would amount to about the weight of a big booger. And they could decline of course and gamble with the strength of the guide wraps. I mean why learn the hobby in the first place??? I actually would tell a would be pro $ fisherman to: 1. Pay their dues to the Knot gods! 2. Pay their dues to the Casting gods! 3. Use super strong, sharp hooks! 4. Use the strongest freshest, good line you can find! Any of a number of good rods and reels will combine with those skills to make you an excellent fish catcher! I actually would refuse to build that rod for a customer anymore!

I use Mike's method for trim wraps as well. Couple tips to add. I always try to line up the trim thread and my tie off loop along the edge of the guide foot. Any distortion of the main thread wrap, from the thread underneath,seems to be less noticed. As for the edge of the trim wrap easy way to prevent distorting that. There is no real need for it to be very tight just secured. When I pull the tag end through with my loop I don't pull in all the way through. As soon as my tag end of trim is pulled under itself and just into the main wrap I cut the tag end then pull the loop though. The tag end is never pulled out through the main wrap.The tag end is not pulled tight so the edge stays square. You also don't have to try and trim the tag end flush and clean.

Count me in on doing trim bands the way Mike Canavan described. It isn't difficult at all. And while it does add time, that time is nothing compared to the hours of enjoyment you get out of the appearance of your rod. For me, the real pain is doing a thread inlay in the middle of a wrap. Securing the tag ends is simple enough, it's just having to work with the ring of the guide in such close proximity, that gives me the problem. I love the looks of them, but I haven't done any since my very first couple of builds.

The thread inlays within the wrap isn't that difficult for me. I put it not at the middle, but about a 10th of an inch inside the start point, with three single threads looking the best, IMO. I do this (sometimes) on butt wraps and the reduction train of spin rods, but since the wraps on KB's and KT's are so small I leave them off those wraps. Wraps are so small the difference in appearance is not significant and not an issue. I've used the MIke Caravan method, and it works well. I'll just have to practice it to improve my skill. I think it is the way to go. Might be a problem with the two color trims I like, often black and a metallic together. Thanks again to all.