Is anybody familiar or have built on the Zentron Fiber blanks? It looks like its a nylon S-2 8 Micron fiber with similar properties to carbon graphite (carbon/rayon). How are they, what do think or what else do you know? Material properties, weight, strength, elasticity, etc? Looks like something new.

Many years ago G Loomis was talking about materials he saw that were available, but not being used, a lot of it was the expense of these high tech materials and.the publics exceptance. One was a high modulus glass.
At the time Gary was still working at G Loomis and trying to get them to use these materials, but they weren't interested. NFC appears to not have that problem.

this sounds like a poor imitation of graphite..i use glass for the slow responce not a quick one..maybe it,s in the middle but you can get graphite in the middle for less cost..

Is is possible to test materials and get concrete, dependable measurements of the physical qualities of those materials: tensile strength, density [weight/volume], flexibility, recovery rate, harmonics, stuff like that. Of course there is MUCH more to producing a superior rod blank, or even a decent rod blank than those measurements. But rod blank vendors still manage to suppress physical facts about rod blanks and instead use the "lowest common denominator" method of rod blank marketing which involves vague, unmeasured qualities: "soulful" "fast" "powerful" "smooth" "accurate" "lite" "exciting" "strong". There may be no accounting for taste but responsible rod builders still should be able to provide their customers with facts, not fancy.

Phil, I suspect you are really hung-up on measurable data to the point you make accusations that are very marginal with truth. I do not believe anyone is "suppressing data, they just find it unnecessary.

I only build fly rods and have for many years and I was to starting presenting much of measurable data you advocate, their eyes would roll back in their heads! There might be an exception or two by the engineers that I deal with.

Just who is it that uses the term "soulful?"

Phil, I fear you are being naive. If a blank marketer had a blank and PROOF his blank is physically superior he would be a fool not to advertise the particular facts. Unless, of course, the majority of his clientele were blithering idiots and preferred to know how soulful his blanks are.

Phil,
I might suggest that rod builders do not sell facts to their customers, they sell happiness.

It absolutely makes no difference at all what a rod looks like, what a rod feels like, how heavy or how light a rod is.

The only thing that is important is that the product that is sold to the customer makes them happy.

If they are happy with a willow stick and a piece of cotton cord, you have made a successful sale.

Or, if the client wants to pay $5.000 for a rod that weighs 2 grams and will land 50 lb tuna, maybe even better.

But at the end of the day, we can get excited about a different guide, a different material or something else. But, really - all that is important is that a product is sold to the client who is really happy with their purchase.

I have fished with folks using a fiberglass 5 foot rod and a zebco $3 reel and catch a 20 lb trophy and they are simply ecstatic with their fishing rod.

As others have said, if is fine for you to wish for something that can be measured, but at the end of the day, if a rod catches more fish than their previous rods they will be genuinely happy - no matter the high, or low cost, no matter if they have steel guides that are 10 cents each or high end guides that are $40 per guide. If the use of the tool, whatever it may be - makes the customer happy, you have made the day for the person in question.

Best wishes.

Roger: Without meaning to your argument has explained the reason for the current market crash and the popularity of scoundrels in government. I used to think better casters and better casts caught more fish, but I ignored the fact that most anglers only use rods to chuck bait, then sit down and wait - and most of the people I built rods for are not bait fishermen. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

Phil, I am far from naive! I am 83 years old been fishing for 75 of those years, 50 of them with flies. My career spanned times in sale, marketing, merchandising, finance and eventually as President of two large companies. None of which suppressed data or information!

I just finished delivering 7 fly rods to a family whose ages spanned 70 to 16 and their fly fishing experience from advanced to novice. If I had regalled them with the fact that a blank had a tensile strength of X , a recovery rate of Y and a density of Z it would have been a significant waste of good communications and not addressed what they want to know!

Most purchasers of fishing rods are not data driven types, it it is not our job to try and change that!

21st century ugly stik?

Everything comes with a compromise or advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the peace of mind using a more durable fiberglass fly rod especially from a kayak where high sticking while fighting a fish is sometimes unavoidable. So if a company wants to use a fiberglass material that “ bridges the gap” with carbon fiber by having a similar recovery speed I think that is great. I also think it is great when a company produces a carbon fiber blank that uses Nano resins with x wrap of carbon or dual helix construction to bring the durability closer to fiberglass. I also like measurements like CCS but I sure ain’t thinking about it while I am fishing. Also all that info is still not going to tell exactly how that rod is going to fish against another rod. Is the weight distribution closer to the butt vs another of the same weight or does it have a more flexible tip initially to load vs another that has the same CCS action angle. I think though the main reason all manufacturers don’t post all that info is because it will become all about being the lightest weight with the highest power which throws out the durability factor out the window that these companies have to factor with their warranties.

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phil,
> I might suggest that rod builders do not sell
> facts to their customers, they sell happiness.
>
> It absolutely makes no difference at all what a
> rod looks like, what a rod feels like, how heavy
> or how light a rod is.
>
> The only thing that is important is that the
> product that is sold to the customer makes them
> happy.
>
> If they are happy with a willow stick and a piece
> of cotton cord, you have made a successful sale.
>
> Or, if the client wants to pay $5.000 for a rod
> that weighs 2 grams and will land 50 lb tuna,
> maybe even better.
>
> But at the end of the day, we can get excited
> about a different guide, a different material or
> something else. But, really - all that is
> important is that a product is sold to the client
> who is really happy with their purchase.
>
> I have fished with folks using a fiberglass 5 foot
> rod and a zebco $3 reel and catch a 20 lb trophy
> and they are simply ecstatic with their fishing
> rod.
>
> As others have said, if is fine for you to wish
> for something that can be measured, but at the end
> of the day, if a rod catches more fish than their
> previous rods they will be genuinely happy - no
> matter the high, or low cost, no matter if they
> have steel guides that are 10 cents each or high
> end guides that are $40 per guide. If the use of
> the tool, whatever it may be - makes the customer
> happy, you have made the day for the person in
> question.
>
> Best wishes.

I build rods that start around $375 and it always @#$%& me off when a guy with a Zebco combo catches more fish than me, of course I don't use live bait. The material looks promising and I will most likely give it a shot. I believe the thing that we are all looking for in the rods we build is to have customer tell us; "what a great rod I have now and its better than anything I ever bought in a store." That's what it comes down to, but I really enjoy the banter among us.

Lance,

There are a couple of different types of Zentron

(Zentron) is a term used for a type of fiber made by AGY (an American fiber manufacturer) the "standard" fiber , and in its standard form is 14 microns.

The Zentron fiber that we use, is a 9 micron fiber (I/we have not heard of an 8 micron, or have tested this fiber) and a great benefit to using this fiber, is its effective modulus is close to that of carbon, while retaining elongation properties that carbon does not have.

This allows us to create proper hybrids - without worry of interlaminate shear (where due to the differences in stiffness, one fiber pulls away from the other under load, and begins to separate over time)

The downside is cost, many people try to say Zentron in their marketing (because it is "cool" now, but the truth is, Zentron in its 14 micron state has been available for over 30 years) Zentron (9 micron) fiber was officially launched in Jan 2019. NFC had received it from AGY about two years prior to official release to put through our R&D process. It is an excellent fiber to use in a tubular structures, not just blanks.

Best,
Alex

Except for fly-fishing most fishing rods spend at least 75% of their time in a rod holder fishing with bait or in a rod holder trolling. Neither of these uses requires much in the way of exotic materials or performance.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except for fly-fishing most fishing rods spend at
> least 75% of their time in a rod holder fishing
> with bait or in a rod holder trolling.

Except spinning and casting rods for bass,trout,surf fishing,salmon and steelhead float fishing and drift fishing ,centerpin rods, casting rods for pike and musky,etc. et al.

Robert.............good for you! He often states things that are his opinions, as facts.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except for fly-fishing most fishing rods spend at
> least 75% of their time in a rod holder fishing
> with bait or in a rod holder trolling. Neither of
> these uses requires much in the way of exotic
> materials or performance.

This is the type of elitist mentality that turns many folks off from fly fishing . My opinion is that many fly rods depending on length and fishing conditions are actually better using a lower modulus material that has good flexibility. Now a jigging rod where you are constantly working a lure trying to feel for light bites a very high modulus material is the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2020 10:30PM by David Miller.

Phil Erickson Wrote:
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> Robert.............good for you! He often states
> things that are his opinions, as facts.

It's all good

I spend more time soaking bait than I do fly fishing - or I used to before the **** hit the fan. That doesn't much fit the title "elitist". The best rod for you is the one you like the best, for whatever reason. Traditionally, faster rods were preferred for dry fly fishing and slower rods were preferred for wet fly fishing. The action or speed of your rod doesn't make much difference when it is in a rod holder. I'm egotistical enough to insist these statements are facts - but I would welcome being proved incorrect rather than casually labeled an elitist.

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I'm egotistical enough
> to insist these statements are facts -


"Except for fly-fishing most fishing rods spend at
> least 75% of their time in a rod holder fishing
> with bait or in a rod holder trolling.
"

Not fact sorry not sorry