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Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: rich margiotta (---)
Date: March 17, 2020 08:41AM

Hi All:

What is your experience or opinion on using torzite to replace snake guides on a fly rod? Will casting distance be significantly improved? I suspect hey will certainly hold up better when playing large running fish in the salt. Thanks in advance!

--Rich

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 17, 2020 09:43AM

No, casting distance will not be improved, noticeable nor otherwise. There is very little friction between the line and the guides during casting.

However, the rod will be quieter as the line passes through the guides and you may notice a bit smoother line pay out under drag.

..........

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: March 17, 2020 10:05AM

Do competition fly-casters use torzite guides on their fly rods? If not, what kind of guides do they use?

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 17, 2020 10:43AM

Most competition casters are not using those rods to fight or land fish. Only to cast with. Most use snake guides and often very few of them.

..........

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 17, 2020 04:05PM

I have done what you want to do and the Torzite rout is pretty expensive. I would look at the vendor on the left "Rod Builders Warehouse" and get the Sea Guide Ti framed TiXMG with the Silcon Nitride RS ring. It is an L titanium frame that is half the price of the Torzite. Also I would not tear up a good working fly rod that has no issues. It is easier, at least for me, to just build a new rod. What weight is the rod you are looking at doing this to?

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: March 17, 2020 04:41PM

The only time I ever "grooved" the guides of one of my fly rods was on one I used exclusively with monofilament line on Lake Ontario's"chuck and duck" Salmon River. I have never seen fly a rod whose guides were grooved by fly lines, but if you battle fish for over ten or twenty hours (total) on the backing of a braided line, particularly a heavily greased backing used in a sandy river, gritty fly lines might well groove your guides relatively quickly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2020 09:03PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Quinn Canfield (---.synopsys.com)
Date: March 17, 2020 05:07PM

I use PacBay titanium minima guides for stripping and REC snakes for the rest. I am more concerned with weight and corrosion resistance. I don't see any advantage using ceramic guides for casting and unless you are fishing big game saltwater I don't see the need for ceramic for fighting the fish either

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: rich margiotta (---)
Date: March 18, 2020 08:21AM

Tom:

What's the reason that tournament casters prefer fewer guides?

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: March 18, 2020 08:53AM

I assume it's for added distance. Apparently distance fly-casters have found some way of using fewer guides (which would reduce friction) to add distance to their casts. I suspect their guide spacing and guide train would not work well on a fly rod used to catch fish.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: March 18, 2020 11:40AM

When a rod is cast, after the initial unloading of the rod from the cast, the rod is essentially straight.
Thus, there only needs to be about 2 guides on the rod and the tip top to let the line fly off of the reel.

Again, with no fish on the end of the line during a retrieve, no issue to wind the line back onto the reel with only a couple of guides on the rod blank.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 18, 2020 01:54PM

In fly casting the line does not "come off the reel"! It is already pulled from the reel and held with the off hand in loops that are released during the last part of the casting stroke.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: rich margiotta (---)
Date: March 18, 2020 08:24PM

The torzite guides are 40% lighter than SIC, according to the Fuji. Are they that much slicker?

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: March 19, 2020 12:29AM

I see 0 reason to ever put torzite guides on a rod, unless you want the rod to be more expensive.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 19, 2020 08:04PM

Is there anybody on here that is making tournament casting fly rods? I hear a lot of speculation about what makes a fly rod cast farther but it does not look like anyone actually does it. From what I can see watching competitions is that the rods have a normal amount of guides for the length. I am seeing 8, 9 and 10 guides on 8.5', 9' and 10' rods and not in a exact amount on each length. It appears that it is mostly technique and not specialized equipment. Put ceramic guides on it, they don't weigh that much so don't be afraid.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 21, 2020 01:07PM

With all the speculation and guess work on the subject of rods for competitive fly casting I asked a fishing buddy and rod building expert for his input, which is below.

If the name Maxine McCormick is not familiar, she is the teenage casting phenome who has been winning International fly casting competitions since she was eleven years old. Google her name for more information.

Here is the response to my questions of Wayne Hofer the friend and builder.

Chris Korich (Maxine McCormick and US Team coach) and I worked on rods for hours in summer 2018. Fascinating!

Some things we incorporated were:
. Shorter rods 8-8.5 ft.
. Stiffer tips (actually cutting an inch off the tip sometime stiffened the rod noticeably)
. Rods were two piece
. A big factor was guides. We used all Fuji (TLSG) Ti, SiC and/or Torzite insert single foot ring guides, Fuji Ti and SiC insert tip tops (casting rod tip tops). Fuji Ti, SiC insert stripping guide. All was geared to minimize weight and decreased friction. Tip section guides were as small as 4mm, several at this size and increasing to about 6 or 7mm before stripping guide. Number of guides usually one more than specified by rod manufacturer. Placement of guides using static technique. Another reason for single foot Fujis is to get the fly line off the rod blank much as possible when casting. Minimum epoxy, just cover threads (weight reduction).
. Rod/reel balance critical. Primary method was to match the reel to the rod to get balance.
. 1.5” dia. short butt section. It presses against under forearm to keep the rod straight while long distance casting.
.Fuji graphite spinning rod seats to minimize weight. Foam inserts to fit the rod blank OD.
. Custom cork only grip much like Fenwick design. Casting hand can move up and down grip as casting style and balance changes. Not locked in place like full wells and half wells designs.
. We even had one brand of tip section rod with another brand of butt section rod to get desired action.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: ben belote (24.112.172.---)
Date: March 21, 2020 07:14PM

Phil, that sounds like a pretty nice rod set up just for fishing much less for tourament casting..

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla1.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: March 21, 2020 10:58PM

In terms of friction I notice a huge amount of difference under load. Jigging for large heavy fighting fish say 25kg plus peeling off line at a rate of knots and drag up around 15kg or more Torzite comes into its own. I'd image using a torzite guide as a stripper would be ideal for fighting fish.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: THOMAS LANGLEY (---.byvw.hsi.whidbey.net)
Date: March 23, 2020 11:40AM

Is there any such thing as a New Concept Guide for fly rods?

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Mick Murphy (31.127.52.---)
Date: March 23, 2020 12:15PM

Yes Tom I was wondering the same thing with the concept system with the k titanium torzite centres has any one on here tried this? If so let us all know your findings.

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Re: Torzite guides instead of snake guides on fly rods
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: March 23, 2020 03:07PM

It may have been done, however as the application is based upon the reel,it is not useful in fly fishing as it is done with a fixed amount of line out of the rod and line does not come off the reel when casting...

If anyone on this site is using the concept system on fly rods, it would be great to get their input.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2020 03:19PM by Phil Erickson.

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