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reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Michael Ward (---.sip.int.bellsouth.net)
Date: March 06, 2020 02:38PM

Is there any problem in reversing the direction on the sewing machine type motors used on the ALPS wrapper by reversing polarity on the motor feed? I've tried to dig up the answer which I'm sure is in the archives here somewhere but have not hit on it - I did find a pointer in a past post on to how to wire a DPDT rocker switch which would be a very clean way to do so - as long as it does not cause issue with the motor itself.....

[www.instructables.com]

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: March 06, 2020 03:22PM

Michael,
It is my understanding the sewing type motors used with most power wappers are 110 (120) VAC and will not reverse direction by reversing the wires (polarity); you need a DC motor to reverse the direction by reversing the wires (polarity). Roger Wilson is the one to contact if he does not reply to this topic, which I am quite certain, he will.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: March 06, 2020 04:55PM

Michael,
Yes, ac/dc universal motors can be reversed by swapping the internal lead of the brushes with respect to the armature.

However, for many of these motors - it is impossible to get to the connections because they are buried internally under other wrapped coils of armature wire.

In addition, for optimum operation of these universal motors the brushes are set at a precise lead angle with respect to the armature for running in one direction.

If one is successful in reversing the motor direction - many times the motor runs very poorly and with a huge amount of brush sparking if reverse motor operation is attempted.

But, as Mark pointed out; the typical smaller brush style dc motor may be easily reversed by simply swapping the motor leads with respect to the + and - connections on the power supply. This switch may be easily accomplished with a double pole double throw switch that has been cross wired.

By the way, here is a picture of a recent build to eliminate the AC universal motor on an Alps wrapper and replace it with a DC motor. The conversion works extremely well and makes it easy to control the speed of the chuck at speeds down to 2 rpm and have the ability to be reversed with the flip of a switch.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Best wishes.

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: March 06, 2020 06:31PM

However, here is an example of a right angle gear motor that uses a reversible ac/dc motor similar to the typical sewing machine type motor commonly used on many commercial wrappers.

[www.grainger.com]

But, and it is a big but - the difference between this particular motor is that it is powered with an ac/dc universal reversible motor that can be reversed. The difference is that this particular motor was designed from the get go to be reversible and thus, the position of the brushes with respect to the armature is 0 degrees that provide less power in either direction, but does apply it equally in both directions.

This, in contrast to the typical sewing machine motor that is designed to be run in one direction only and thus, has an advanced brush angle in the inside of the motor to maximize the power when run in that direction.

Best wishes.

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Michael Ward (---.sip.int.bellsouth.net)
Date: March 06, 2020 11:24PM

Thanks Roger - this reconciles things I’ve run across on changing the polarity of the wires to the motor coil itself but then it may having issues with these type motors

Looks like it’s a DC motor conversion to be done if I want the reverse..... just need to sort out the right parts ;)

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: March 07, 2020 01:00AM

Michael,
So there you have it; Roger answered with his infinite electronical knowledge. He also has great sources for new and used electrical components including motors, speed controllers and is more than savvy to know which components will work the best for any given application. As Roger, my Dad is a retired EE and I absorbed a basic knowledge of things electrical while growing-up; just enough to get myself into trouble. I am way too old to get into trouble any more so I employed Roger to design the electrical componentry to satisfy my desires for my power wrapper/lathe upgrade. I could not be happier with how well it performs = Roger is the best. Consider employing his abilities and assistance for your situation as well.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Mike Laver (---.home4.cgocable.net)
Date: March 07, 2020 08:41AM

Further to my post a month ago when I converted to a DC motor, it has worked so much better than my original AC wrapper, the reverse function for the foot pedal is a blessing for a 70 yr old with one eye. Since last post I have got rid of the remote to change polarity as it did not function well and just put a 3 way switch at the middle of the wrapper track that is easily accessable. Using the motor only with variable speed makes doing decorative wraps so much quicker and easier and great for applying epoxy and finish.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2020 08:45AM by Mike Laver.

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: Michael Ward (---)
Date: March 07, 2020 04:12PM

Mike L / Roger - could you point me to the specs on the motor used -

Can’t figure out how to change the setting for my email - click on the setting and it does not change - but it’s mwardncsu@gmail.com if you’d rather email....

Thanks

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Re: reversing motor on ALPS wrapper
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: March 08, 2020 11:00AM

Michael,
If you want a DC motor to use ONLY as a wrapping and drying motor - you can choose any of the smaller 12 or 24 volt dc motors that are commonly on the market.

For wrapping and drying using a 1:1 pulley system, a gear motor with a top rpm of 125-300 rpm works just fine. This rpm might be a touch slow for some wrappers who wish to do long wraps, but for everything else this speed works well and lets the wrapper wrap at specs of 2-3 rpm if one wishes when doing intricate wrapping.

A nice way to go for a motor and pulley system is to us XL cogged pulleys with XL cogged belts that are run loose. Since these smaller motors tend to have plenty of power for wrapping without a lot of surplus power, the use of the loosely run cogged belts do not absorb power from running a taunt belt.

Then, one needs to use a DC power supply of the appropriate voltage. i.e. 12 volt supply for 12 volt motors and a 24 volt supply for 24 volt motors. In addition the use of a motor speed controller between the motor and the power supply allows for very precise control.

Then, one needs an appropriate foot pedal to control the motor speed controller.

Just do a search for 12 volt or 24 volt dc gear motors of your desired operating top rpm and you will come up with a list that you can search and come up with the one that suits you best.

Take care

Roger

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