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New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Tom Harrigan (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 11:53AM

As the title bar indicates, I'm new, building my second 4 piece fly rod.

I'm doing them on the kitchen table, and so I pack everything up at the end of the night.

On the first rod, my wraps pretty much stayed "wrapped" for the entire build until I coated them. Once or twice I unpacked the rod to start working and found a wrap that had unraveled, requiring a re-wrap. No problem.

On this second rod, using the same brand and type of thread, but a different blank, I had wraps come unraveled before I even packed the rod up for the evening.

I'm not sure of the terminology, in fly-tying I would use the word "capture" to describe locking down the thread.

What's the correct terminology, and what are some techniques to lock down the wrap before coating?

Many thanks -

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 24, 2020 12:04PM

Tom,
I generally use about a 7-10 thread capture of the tag end of the wrap and have never had any issues.

You do your wrap and as you near the end, insert a pull back loop. I generally do this with 7-10 threads past the pull back loop. Then, when I get to the end of the wrap, insert the tag end into the pull back loop and pull the tag end back under the completed wraps.

If you essentially do this process, but have issues with the thread coming loose, it is caused by wraps that are much too loose.

When I wrap, I adjust my thread tension to a point that with a guide that has been wrapper - I can just barely move the guide with two fingers for the final guide alignment.

If you can just brush the guide, or the guide pulls out of the wrap - again - it is caused because your wraps are too loose.

-----------
Do some test wraps on some scrap blanks or any other smooth round surface. Try first to make your wraps as tight as you can possibly wrap the thread over the guide foot and after the tie off - give the guide a test to see if you can adjust its position. If the guide is totally nailed in place because of the thread tension - you have the tension too tight. But, if you can still easily move the guide, you need to use more tension when wrapping.

When one begins to wrap, it is very common indeed to make the wraps too loose. That is why I suggest that you do test wraps making them with as much tension as you can put on the tread and if needed make them a touch more loose if you need.

Best wishes

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 12:08PM

When you pack up you will always need to be sure nothing rubs on the uncoated wraps, as even when properly locked they are fragile! Below is a link to a video on wrapping fly rod guides that may help you.

[youtu.be]

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 01:52PM

since i,m going to use C.P., i apply it right after each wrap is done..by the time i get to the last wrap everything is locked down..more or less..lol.

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: February 24, 2020 04:13PM

Tom,
Roger, Phil and Ben offered very good advice, although I typically do not use CP as Ben does. In particular, Roger’s comment on proper thread tension is quite important. Unfortunately, “proper” is a relative term and difficult to precisely describe as I discovered when asking that very question on this site a few years ago. I probably have a tendency to use more tension than necessary but have been backing off a bit lately. Having said that, it is probably better to have too much rather than too little tension.
Allow me to add a few notes for you to consider;
1.) If your wraps are adequately tight, 3-4 rotations over the tag end should be sufficient to lock (“capture” is a very good term as well) it in place. While more rotations certainly add additional security, it also lengthens the unavoidable bump in the wrap caused by the underlying tag end of thread.
2.) When starting a wrap, allow enough rotations before the guide foot to lock the tag end between the blank and wrap; an 1/8in is fairly common.
3.) Do not attempt to tie-off a wrap on top of a guide foot; there is not enough surface area to securely lock the thread in place due to the voids or “tunnels” created on either side of the foot. This will become very obvious during final alignment of the guides prior to applying finish = boink!
4.) Install your tie-off loop early, well before (10-20 rotations) the end of the wrap. Hold the thread from unraveling with a finger, cut the thread and insert it into the loop. Now, while pulling on the tag end, let your other finger go and pull the tie-off loop until the tag end is just starting to go under the wrap (1-2 rotations). Cut the tag as close as possible to (WITHOUT NICKING) the wrap and pull the tie-off loop out on a 45* angle. The end of the tag will be left secured and concealed under the wrap with no further trimming necessary. I have also found packing the wrap to square-up the end PRIOR TO CUTTING THE TAG is beneficial to limit the amount of thread manipulation and the chance of everything going boink.
5.) As Phil and Ben mentioned, even with the best methods of starting and tying-off a wrap, they are still fragile. The less thread manipulation after tying-off = the better.
Good luck and let us know if these replies help.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Tom Harrigan (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 05:28PM

Gentlemen:

Thank you, I was trying to finish the wrap next to the guide foot (trying to hide the bump) and was trying to limit the number of wraps over the tag end. Double whammy.

Let me hit it again tonight and I'll report back.

Tom

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 06:07PM

Tom dome times I'm doing several rods at at time set them aside and finish all at one time.( sometimes a few days
before I get back to them)
I have found that if I wait until I am ready to finish the rods before cutting my tag ends, there is no problem
with them coming unwrapped.

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Jay Dubay (---.clv.wideopenwest.com)
Date: February 24, 2020 08:22PM

Tom Harrigan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gentlemen:
>
> Thank you, I was trying to finish the wrap next to
> the guide foot (trying to hide the bump) and was
> trying to limit the number of wraps over the tag
> end. Double whammy.
>
> Let me hit it again tonight and I'll report back.
>
> Tom


Pull the cut-off Tag Tight before you cut it! What's left should pull itself under the wraps, Then Burnish the Bump down, you'll never get rid of it entirely, But you can iron it down with your burnishing tool. After epoxy you won't see it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 08:38PM by Jay Dubay.

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Tom Harrigan (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 24, 2020 11:45PM

Thanks again, all -

Great tips, what I tried tonight- based on your tips- worked.

Now, if you'll tell me how not to drop snake guides in the carpet...

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 25, 2020 08:20AM

The best way to avoid dropping snake guides into the carpet is to lay down a piece of plywood or hardboard under your chair and table where you are working so there is no carpet in the falling area of a free falling guide. No carpet to land on, no need to ever look for guides in the carpet.

Also, if you use white hard board, any tiny object shows up more clearly with the contrast of the white floor and the tiny object.

Take care

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: February 25, 2020 06:59PM

Another way to find guides in the carpet is to remove your shoes.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: New Builder Thread Capture Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: February 26, 2020 10:05AM

Mark has the most effective way of finding them. Small micros are worse.

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