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Re: What causes line/guide tangles at the rod tip?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 25, 2020 08:45AM

Phil,
Thanks for the thoughts and the notes.

Yes, I have done exactly what you describe.

I have built a machine to clamp in a spool and another mount to hold a line spool and a control box and motor to spin the spool and fill the line in a manner identical to what you suggest.

I have gone to sporting good stores to have a spinning reel filled with line and they do essentially the same thing. i.e. the spool gets filled with no twists added.

Then, I go out and go fishing with the reel spooled in the way that you mention or with the line that was filled at the sporting goods store in the way that you mention.

It seems that three days later, I am having line twist issues.

But, if I then go through the "dragging the line in the water with no terminal tackle for an 1/8th of a mile or so and then using the reel to reel in the line with a tight drag so that the reel never slips - I can then go for a couple of weeks of fishing before the twists develop where I have to go through the same process again.

I have also found that this is not a specific reel issue - it happens with all of the spinning reels. It is also not a lure or bait issue - it happens with the reels - no matter what lure or bait I have been using.


I think that I need to do an experiment where I tie a few ribbons on a 100 yards of line and let all of the line out and lay in the grass. Then, when reeling in the line, verify if the ribbons ever spin or twist. Also, cast with those same ribbons on the line and see if the line is twisting on the way out on a cast.

----------------------------------------
After I had built my spool holder and line filler, I suppose that I filled a couple hundred spinning reel spools of line for both myself as well as fishing friends. It was universally found that after a day or a few days of fishing, the person using the reel would be having trouble with line twists. In a word, I can not explain the situation. But, after using the machine for a couple of years to fill spools very well, and to fill a few hundred line spools which all experienced the same issue - I disassembled the machine and have used the parts for other machines.

The only thing that makes sense to me, is that when a spinning reel is used to load line - that is not on a spool, but laying free and clear, that it actually puts some twist in the line. Then, as the line is cast, that same twist is undone during the cast. I have not verified that issue and I have not verified that the line is twisting when it is reeled back in. But, a situation similar to that seems to be the only explanation that I can conclude.

--------------------------------------
As I have said earlier, I have tried putting line on a spinning reel using every conceivable method. But, the only method that I have found to put line on a spinning reel spool, is to use the actual reel to load line that is stretched out and is free to rotate or not as needed when the line is spooled onto the spool that is on the reel.

@#$%&? I don't think so. However, after a bunch of attempts to figure it out, I still do not know the exact reason why this is happening. The one positive thing that I do know for sure is that if the line is straight out behind the boat and after having been pulled for a good distance and is reeled back in, making sure that the drag on the reel does not slip, that I can use the reel for a good long time without having a repeat of line twist issues.

If somebody knows the real and scientific answer to this phenomena, I would certainly like to know the answer.

p.s.
This is the machine that I built many years ago to hold spinning reel spools to be filled with fishing line. On the side of the machine that is not visible is another hole to hold a spool of fishing line to use when filling the spools. Certainly a simple concept and it worked just fine to load fishing line on a spinning reel spool with no twists. But, in a couple of days of use after filling the spools, I would be experiencing tangles and loops caused by line twists:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Go figure.

I am certainly willing to listen to and to try any possible explanation for this issue.

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Re: What causes line/guide tangles at the rod tip?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 25, 2020 09:25AM

The more line that is pulled off the spool against the drag the more twisted your line becomes, because one end of the line - where it meets the spool - is rotating while the other end of the line is not. If you secure both ends of a piece of line and twist the middle of it between your fingers, then let go, the twists will disappear.

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Re: What causes line/guide tangles at the rod tip?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 25, 2020 09:45AM

Phil,
Absolutely correct.

But, if line is pulled off the side of the spool with the spool not rotating as is the case when a lure is cast from a reel, twist is induced into the line. Then, if the drag does not slip on the reel, and if the line does not twist at the terminal end, that same twist is removed from the line when the line is reeled back onto the spool.

Take the case of the extension cord. I use the extension cord because it is easy to see any line rotation in the cord.

Lets say that you have a brand new extension cord on a spool. If you put the pencil in the center of the spool so to speak, and pull on the cord, the line uncoils nicely and there are no twists in the cord. Then, if the axle on the spool is rotated back, there will be not twists in the extension cord. This is exactly what happens with a bait casting reel. Straight in when loading and straight out when unloading.

But now, lets take that same brand new extension cord and hold the cord while standing sideways. Have someone pull this untwisted extension cord off of the side of the spool or the side of the package in the case of a new extension cord and then lay the cord on the ground, but do not let the free end loose. What will you see? You will see a cord with a bunch of coils in it. This is exactly what happens when a perfectly straight untwisted fishing line is spooled straight onto the spool of a new fishing reel. The line goes straight onto the spool and if you just pull on the line while holdig the the bottom and the top of the spool between your fingers and let the spool spin as you pull line off you will get all of the line off of the spool and the line will be perfectly straight and will be exactly like it was when it was spooled onto the reel.

Now spin the reel and put the line back on the reel as it was done at the line shop.

Now, however, hold tightly onto the end of the line and pull the line off of the face of the spool as is being done every time that you cast. Now, when you get to the end of the spool, don't let go of the free line, but give it slack. What willl you see? You will see a fishing line with a hundred coils in it that were caused by the line coming off of the face of the spool. But, now, as you reel it back in the twists will be coming with it.

Now, if you go back to the extension cord, where the line that was pulled off of the side of the spool is on the ground with the end being restrained by the person who pulled it off of the spool with the twists in the line. Now, if the person holding the spool of the extension cord rewinds the extension cord from the side of the spool in exactly the same fashion as when it went off the spool, and with the end of the cord being restrained by the person holding the cord so that it does not rotate, when the end of the cord gets back to the spool there will be 0 twists in the cord and it will be 100% untwisted. This is because the line twists that were induced into the cord by pulling off the side of the spool were removed when rewrapped by the the side of the spool that is a manner identical to a spinning reel in action.

Best wishes

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Re: What causes line/guide tangles at the rod tip?
Posted by: Dennis Danku (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: February 26, 2020 01:31AM

Camillo, I would suggest that you check all those guides in the tip section for a rough spot in the rings. Look for cracks, burs or anything that could be slowing the line down in that area. It seems like something is choking your line causing it to back up on itself.

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

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