I am building an NFC 1167-2 H power F action surf rod 11' 6" . Purpose is to cast swim bait type lures in the 3-5 oz range. Planned reel is a Penn Slammer III 4500 (spool diameter 55mm). 20-40lb braid range, most likely 30lb. Reel seat is set at 26" from butt to mounted reel stem. I have used the spool dia. x 27 to locate the choke guide at 1485mm from spool face.

From other sources I have received the following guide train recommendations;

Fuji (all KW's) 30, 25, 20, 12 8 choke and runners. This lays out on the rod a little weird it seems. The KW30 is only 20.5" from the spool face (outside the recommended 22'-28") and the guide sits on the butt section. Is the 20.5" location ok, or should I move the guide forward even if that does not fit the line from the spool axis to the choke guide? It would raise the line a lot because if I move the 30 forward it will go onto the female ferrule, which raises the height even more. Plus, the distance between the KW20 and KW12 is 8" and the distance between the KW12 and the choke is 5", with runners thereafter spaced about 5" apart. It just seems like there may be extra guides here but I am not sure. And does it matter that the stripper guide is on the butt section - seems weird none of my other surf rods have guides on the butt section.?

An alternate layout that was recommended was Fuji RV25H, RV16H, KW10m to the KW8 choke and runners. The RV25H sits at 25" from spool face and the three reduction guides seem to lay out better then the 4 reduction guides in the other guide train. But these three guides alone cost $130. Ugh. I assume I can not substitute KL-H 25 and KL-H 16 for the RV's, all of which have the same height?

Your thoughts?

maybe if the seat were moved forward a bit the guides would all fall on the tip section..isn,t the real seat position somewhat flexable..

Last 11'6" rod I built I believe my stripper guide was closer to 32" from the front of the reel seat, but that's with a 2.75" spool diameter. Tape some guides on and static deflect it and test cast it

You want to place the 12 at your 27x location. I'd probably push it out a little farther though, maybe 62". Put the stripper at 30" and bullseye the 25 and 20 between.

Brian, are you suggesting using the 12 as the choke guide then? I thought the choke guide was the first runner, an 8 in this scenario?

You're correct that the first runner is the choke. I was just suggesting that because it will give you better spacing in this situation.

I would just 25, 16, 10 and 8 runners to the tip.

I would place the 30 at 34 inches from the face of the reel, and then space the others as needed to insure a perfect line flow on a loaded blank. The 2nd guide about 14 inches further down the rod and the 3rd guide 9 inches down the rod and runners as needed.

Remember, you do not need a guide if the rod is virtually straight when the rod is loaded.

Just make sure that the stripper or size 25 guide is a RV25H to insure that there is no line slap on extreme casts. The next two can be the shorter RV16, and the KW10.


Also, there are a lot of great guides out there that will work fine and hold up very well that are not priced at $60 per guide.

Best wishes.

Roger, thanks for the help. please clarify, did you mean RV25H, RV16H, KW10M and then 8's to the tip (KW or KT, my choice)?

Also, when you said "I would place the 30 at 34 inches" did you mean to say the 25?

Bob,
Folks have found that after the stripper only one or possibly two smaller reduction guides are needed before getting to the runners that will take the line to the tip.

No, I meant to say 30-34 inches for the stripper on a 10-12 foot rod. My point is that if there is no bend in the rod for 98% of the time in a location, there is no need to have a guide in those rod locations to guide the line.

For shorter rods like 6-7 feet, then my stripper guide will be placed at 19-20 inches. But, as the rod gets longer my stripper location moves away from the face of the reel seat. i.e. for a 10 foot blank a good starting point is 30-34 inches.

As with any guide placement - do you testing and load the rod and insure that you have an appropriate guide in an appropriate location to insure that the line follows the contour of the loaded blank. No bends in the blank - no need to have a guide at that spot.

Take care

Thanks again Roger, And just so I can wrap my head around all of this a little more, under the above recommendations, am I still using the spool diameter x 27 to locate the choke guide, or is that also a guideline that can be deviated from as necessary?

I know people always say lay out the guides and test cast. But for a beginner like me, without some defined starting points, the test casting process seems overwhelming, with so many variables.