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first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: colby witherow (---.subnet-69-85-115.ellijay.com)
Date: February 12, 2020 08:58AM

Hello, i'll start with a brief history of my current situation. I just finished my second rod, a pointblank 7'3 mh torzite guides mvt reel seat flat black look. I posted it in a local fishing Facebook group i am a member in because well i was proud of it lol. Another member contacted me asking if i am going to build anymore or is that my only one, now that I've hit the rod pipe i told him i plan to build every rod i intend to use for the rest of my fishing days. He wants me to build him a rod, then follow up ones if he is happy with the first etc .... Now my reason for this post, he is about 5'9 skinny build so he wants a 6'9 to 7'0 foot flipping rod, he says that for the last 10 years or so in every price bracket from almost ever rod manufacturer he has broken rods setting the hook. when i inquired more about it he says that breaks are predominantly in the middle or towards the butt reel seat area for all 20 something broken rods... what would cause this? i'm going to look at his favorite combos this week to get an idea of what he would like in a rod and plan to spend at least a week discussing things back n forth and letting him try different grips etc i have on hand before i even start to narrow down components

sorry for the long post, i appreciate any and all feed back

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 12, 2020 10:30AM

If they're breaking low, they are very likely breaking from overload and/or shock. He's breaking the rods. Abuse while traveling or storing, overpowering on the hook set combined with braided line, etc. He's breaking the rods. You need to consider this when building a rod for him as he likely to break whatever you build for him as well.


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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Robert Dittert III (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 12, 2020 12:48PM

Sounds like someone who will break whatever rod you build him. J/k.

You would think after ten years of breaking multiple brands of flipping rods, he would look at the one constant factor. Him.

Good luck building him something he doesn't break.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Victor Heal (---.sub-174-255-0.myvzw.com)
Date: February 12, 2020 01:05PM

Is the guys name Shane? Seriously, I had a tournament fisherman that broke 3 in a season. I went out with him to see if I could figure out what was going on. His hookset consisted of taking a big step back while reeling down to the water and leaning forward then a jump up and back as he swung the rod upwards. I never built him another rod.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: colby witherow (---.subnet-69-85-115.ellijay.com)
Date: February 12, 2020 02:05PM

He on the phone knows its him, like dead knows he sets the hook way too hard but he said if he tries to mentally back off he loses all confidence in his fishing. which I can understand the confidence aspect i have a angle or stance when i crank n i swear if i was standing on a domino difference i miss everytime ( i know it is mental but as with any sport mental makes up a serious part of it) ... after we talked for awhile we both know he is expecting this rod to break as well but is there anything that can prolong or reduce when it happens? blanks, handles, etc. I thought spiral wrapping might help, i have a couple of them i use specifically to flip with and i love them

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 12, 2020 02:20PM

maybe build it on a telescopic type blank, extra heavy..they have realy strong butt ends..or even a heavy fiberglass blank, one piece(at least starting out..lol)..

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Jerme Europa (41.114.213.---)
Date: February 12, 2020 03:28PM

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
> If they're breaking low, they are very likely
> breaking from overload and/or shock. He's breaking
> the rods. Abuse while traveling or storing,
> overpowering on the hook set combined with braided
> line, etc. He's breaking the rods. You need to
> consider this when building a rod for him as he
> likely to break whatever you build for him as
> well.
> ..............

This is comedy stuff from TOM

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Scott Lawrence (1.132.105.---)
Date: February 12, 2020 07:09PM

In the library there is a article called Eliminate Broken Rods- correct rod usage. About 10 copies of this to read may help.
Good info even if your not a serial rod breaker.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 12, 2020 08:44PM

Your'e being played, or I'm a Dutchman. Nobody makes 6-9 to 7ft. flipping blanks. So you'd have to use your imagination a little.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---)
Date: February 14, 2020 08:04PM

One curious thing with a person you don't know is a red flag, two starts to be a warning light, and a third adds a siren to the mix. It seems curious that a small-framed guy has broken over twenty heavy-weight rods (if they were all flipping) in the butt and mid-sections on what I'm assuming to be largemouth bass. I'm not sure you could accidentally do this so consistently, setting hooks into Tarpon, with awful technique. Breaking rods in the mid-section is curious in non-rail fishing situations. I don't remember ever seeing a rod break in the mid-section in a standard fishing scenario. It also seems curious that he would destroy this many rods and want to pay for a custom build. If a person is breaking more than two rods a year in all price ranges, I'd think that they would then be in the vicinity of bargain-bin shopping.

Now, I'm going past three curiosities. It's hard to rationalize that a person doesn't feel confident unless they are doing something that they know consistently breaks their rod. Breaking rods in fish-on situations would seem to be confidence sapping, frustrating experiences that a person would want to quickly learn how to avoid. I found on a trip that a TSA inspector had damaged a rod, knowing I was fishing with a time-bomb did not make me confident. It's also curious that a person wants a rod configuration that doesn't exist for a reason that doesn't really wash. This person is only slightly shorter than average height. He is buying a type of rod that is not really limited by his stature, like a topwater rod could be.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2020 08:53PM by Kendall Cikanek.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 14, 2020 09:28PM

I learned a lesson about 5 years ago (it took 3 years of being stupid); Don't build rods for tournament fishermen or professional fishermen, and if you do, no Warranty whatsoever even if the manufacturer warrants the blank. Just try to get the broken rods back and salvage the guides and maybe even metal winding checks. Take the blank back to where you got it and see if they will give you something for it. But if that guy wants another rod he will have to pay full price. He has probably already burnt bridges with other rod builders, so beware.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: February 14, 2020 11:04PM

I've been following this thread and I could be wrong, but here is what I think ....... no way is this guy breaking rods on the hook set, and if he is he has done something to damage the blank prior to it breaking on a hook set. And my guess is that he has high sticked it either in trying to free a hung up bait, perhaps trying to pull a fish out of cover, or by boat flipping a fish the wrong way, or a fish that was too big.

I'm wondering how he sets the hook? I don't mean how hard, I mean how? Does he drop his rod tip, reel in a small amount of slack and then set the hook with some slack in his line? Personally that's how I do it. I leave the small amount of slack to help me generate rod tip speed. I want that tip moving as quickly as I can so it makes the bait jump in the fish's mouth. I've read other members wonder about the need of setting the hook hard. Speaking as a bass fisherman, to this I say, there is more to a hook set than just starting hook penetration. If you're fishing in heavy cover, the hook set is just as much about moving the fish, or at least getting it's head turned towards you, as it is about hook penetration. The size of the bait (its bulkiness) one is using, the type of bass you're after also plays a role.

Back to the topic at hand....... IF you want to build this person a rod (I personally wouldn't) and he wants a 7' blank, such an animal exists. It's not labeled as a flipping blank, but it has the characteristics of a flipping blank. That blank is the NFC MB709. It's available in every series of blanks that NFC makes, except for the HM X ray line of blanks. I am a littler shorter than the person that is looking to have this rod built, so I wanted a 7' blank as well. I went with the IM version of the MB709. It is a fantastic flipping and pitching blank. More than fantastic .... it is flat out awesome for said task. It's 7' long with a named power of mag heavy. Rated for baits 3/8 - 2 oz, line 14 - 30#, and comes with a moderate fast action and has very good sensitivity.

He would be more than happy with a rod built on that blank. I don't know how close the Delta LMX or SM versions are to the IM version, but I would be looking at one of those simply because they may be a little tougher. Although I will say that I have fished the above rod for a year switching between 20# fluorocarbon and 65# braid, and I have zero fear of breaking it. And I powder fish on the hook set when fishing heavy cover.

Anyhow, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 06:59AM by David Baylor.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: colby witherow (---.subnet-69-85-115.ellijay.com)
Date: February 16, 2020 06:38PM

thank you for all the information, i went and got a couple of his broken rods to look at them and talked with him a bit more. now that i have seen what he wants which is a "broomstick" by the way i think i can help him. I talk to him about a few things and he is not in the slightest picky or into the quality of components he doesn't see a difference between a 400 dollar rod and a 50 dollar one. so despite the warnings i am gonna build him one i mean the man did give me a power wrapper/ dryer because he wasn't using it and wanted it to go to good use. I don't have many things like that happen to me in my life so i wanna return the favor and hopefully build him something he likes.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com)
Date: February 17, 2020 12:54AM

It sounds like this man has certainly "paid ahead". You could cut three inches off the butt of a Rodgeeks 7'3" X-Comp and have a tough, medium-fast rod. They aren't super-light, but they are better than a broomstick. The new Fuji Fazlite guides should be durable. They are fairly well priced. I've thought about butt-wraps with Kevlar fly tying thread, but I have never had a need to add the extra weight. If your customer is breaking rods from the butt to the mid-section, reinforcing butt-wraps may not help.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: February 17, 2020 08:54PM

Colby, as this man has helped you out in such a kind way, I can certainly understand you wanting to build this rod for him. Knowing this, I would do the same. I will say that I don't envy you in this endeavor. Not because he has a problem breaking rods, but because based on him wanting a "broomstick", it may be tough finding a blank that isn't overly tip heavy. You bass fish, so you know that there is nothing worse than an overly tip heavy rod when you're flipping.

As for blanks you may want to consider, and I have zero experience with them, but maybe take a look at the musky and pike blanks that MHX offers. I was just looking at them, and they have a couple of 7' blanks that may fit the bill. They're pretty heavy blanks, weight wise, but going by their specs, they'd probably fit the definition of broomstick pretty darn well.

Hope you can find something that will not only last, but will make him happy.

Best of luck

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Michael Maclean (143.88.0.---)
Date: February 20, 2020 12:56PM

I'm about his same height but wouldn't consider myself a skinny build. I have never broke a rod on a hookset lower on the rod but I have seen buddies of mine break them in that fashion before. Every single time they were using heavy braid flipping and pitching into dense cover. I've figured that they are using either too light of blank, setting the hook way too hard, or a combination of the both. I'm also sure the heavy cover doesn't help much. I've switched to using heavy mod-fast swimbait rods for most of my pitching and flipping rods. I feel comfortable laying the hammer down with them and don't stress out if one of my buddies wants to borrow one. I don't like using a rod shorter than 7'3" for these situations but prefer 7'6" through 8' with a longer grip. I would see if he is interested in trying out a heavy swimbait style rod for flipping and pitching.

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Re: first "commissioned" rod
Posted by: Kendall Cikanek (---.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com)
Date: February 21, 2020 12:09AM

You make some good points. I am still surprised when I hear or read someone boasting about how hard they are on their gear. My perspective has long been that one of the key traits of outdoor professionals, and advanced enthusiasts, is that they take care of their gear and use it appropriately. Some combination of setting the drag correct to the capability of the gear and knowing when to back-off seems to be fairly basic.

There is only so much resistance that even a double-digit bass can put on an angler during a hook set. Bass aren't chinook, tuna, or other species of fish that inherently run hard and fast when hooked. If the bass or lure isn't tangled, the head comes around on the set and the fish starts to at least initially move towards the angler. If this doesn't happen, continuing to power through to the point of high-sticking a snag, is unlikely to help. A muskie or greater scale of set on a bass seems to me to have zero utility. I get David's "powder the fish" hook set. But, when doing that without having anything move, it's time to hold-pat with an unbroken rod and reassess.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2020 12:57AM by Kendall Cikanek.

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