I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

ICRBE 2020
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Bingham Enterprises
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
REC Components
ReelSeatBlanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rod Builders Warehouse
RodHouse France
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 07, 2020 05:03PM

A common misconception is a fish rod "throws" a line. Lash your rod in an upright position, put a fishing weight in a sling at the end of your line pull it back as far as you dare and let her fly! Your rod tip will decelerate as it moves forward. You could flick the weight farther with your thumb. Casting involves a rod pulling a line, not pushing on it, not even a little. A stiffer rod will cast farther because it will bend less, which causes a greater radius in the arc of the rod while casting. This greater radius causes the rod to PULL your sinker/weight/fly at a greater velocity. Ads and people talk about "throwing" casts with their fish rods, but the truth is your casts are totally dependent upon PULLING speed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 07, 2020 06:21PM

Or, to simplify = Casting depends on the rod tip velocity for the greatest distance.

Hence, a long rod that has the tip moving at the same velocity as a shorter rod will get the lure further from the caster.

However, to move a longer rod at the same velocity for a longer distance tends to be nearly impossible for most folks. Thus, due to the decreased tip velocity of the longer rod, tends to minimize the potential gains in distance by using a longer rod.

Best wishes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 06:54PM

A rod throws a lure/weight and the line follows behind as it is pulled from the reel.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 07:30PM

I love this place!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 08:19PM

I should have also mentioned that it is a spinning or casting rod which throws the lure/weight. In contrast, a fly rod throws the line and the fly is merely along for the ride.
Norm

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 09:40PM

In casting there is another element besides the rod velocity created by the caster. That is the fact that a rod can "load" (especially in a fly casting) during the back cast and "unload" at the end of the forward cast.

If done correctly, a fly cast is accelerated to an abrupt stop (or as Jimmy Green called it "a positive stop") on the forward cast, this forces the loaded rod to unload at greater velocity than the velocity imparted by the caster .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 07, 2020 10:55PM

This is true with casting and spinning rods as well.

............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 08, 2020 10:08AM

The instant the rod stops accelerating due to the caster's input a loop forms in the line. This happens with ANY rod, regardless of the line. Watch and see - slow motion photography makes this crystal clear. The rod does not push the weight, lure, or fly because you can't push a rope - or a line. The energy stored in the rod does not push the line. I used to think the rod which delivered the longest "bow-and-arrow" cast would outcast all the rest. I was wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2020 10:14AM by Phil Ewanicki.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: David Miller (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 08, 2020 01:47PM

Well if that is completely the case why can’t someone cast a 1/8oz jig just a far as a 1/2 oz on a rod rated from 3/8 to 3/4 oz lures. I prefer a rod that loads and unloads during a cast.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 08, 2020 02:02PM

David,
Because, you can not defy or break the laws of physics.

If one accelerates a 1/8th oz jig to a specific velocity - it will contain energy X that will carry it to its final destination.

But, if you accelerate a 1/2 oz jig to the same specific velocity, it will contain energy Y that will be much greater than the energy of the lighter jig.

But, the flip side of the coin is that the heavier jig will fall more quickly due to the 1/8th oz jig which will tend to negate some of the energy from the first equation.

So, it will all balance out, but it will balance on the side where the heavier jig will go further than the lighter jig.

Take care

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 08, 2020 02:57PM

Acceleration of ANY rod - fly rod included - is the part of the equation that makes it all happen. Catapults are devoid of acceleration.
Herb

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 08, 2020 03:17PM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> But, the flip side of the coin is that the heavier
> jig will fall more quickly due to the 1/8th oz jig
> which will tend to negate some of the energy from
> the first equation.
>
>

Take a 1/2 ounce jig and a 1/8th ounce jig to a building top and drop both at the same time. Galileo Galilei did this and found the result to be contrary to what is stated here...

...........

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Paul Luechtefeld (---)
Date: February 08, 2020 03:50PM

Tom is spot on. Gravity is a constant if you could create a vacuum by @#$%& all of the air you could drop a feather and a steel ball at
same time the would land at the same time. Also if you level a rifle
to be parallel with the ground if you fire that rifle and drop a bullet held even with muzzle the bullets will hit at the same time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: February 08, 2020 05:32PM

I'm not touching the 1/8 oz jig versus the 1/2 oz jig falling thing. Gravity is a constant, but outside of a vacuum there are other forces that come into play..If I go up on my snow covered roof and drop a 1/2 oz fishing weight, and an 1/8 oz feather, the rock is hitting the ground before the feather.

As far as the original post of the thread goes ....... huh?

If I reel my bait tight to my rod tip and make a cast,, my rod isn't pulling any line. It's moving the bait that is attached to the line running to the reel. When I put the rod in motion and then bring it to a stop, the weight I have reeled tightly to the tip is going to want to keep on moving, If I have my reel's spool disengaged, or its bail open, (ever forget to do the latter from time to time> lol) and I release the line in a manner appropriate for the type of equipment and with the proper timing, a cast results. I didn't pull any line and I certainly didn't push any line. I simply stopped the movement of one object and let the movement of a separate object continue.

As Norman stated, the weight pulls the line. The rod isn't pushing it. And Phil Erickson and Tom are exactly right, a rod that is unloading will add speed to the rod tip and transfer its energy to the weight, whatever form it takes.

And David Miller is exactly right. If the weight isn't enough to load a rod, that rod isn't going to cast that weight as well as a weight that would load said rod. These are not points of conjecture, these are actual facts. Verifiable n everah thang.

Also, if a catapult is devoid of all acceleration, then why did the pebbles that my buddies used to shoot at me with plastic spoons when we were kids, sting so much?

And finally Phil Ewanicki? If you can flick a weight farther with your thumb than your rod can cast it, I wouldn't have wanted to play marbles with you as a kid. You probably would have shattered all my Cat's Eyes/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2020 05:36PM by David Baylor.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 08, 2020 06:36PM

The mechanical advantage generated by a type I lever has been documented for millennia, but for some reason our ancestors always used rigid arms on their catapults [a type-1 lever] launching weights at the enemy when, according to you, they could have gained gobs of distance by simply using a whippy catapult arm! Somehow that bending and unbending adds energy to the system - according to armchair physicists.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 08, 2020 06:45PM

Instead of a feather and fishing weight, just use two fishing weights of similar size and shape, but different weights. Aerodynamic drag obviously plays a role but with two identical shaped weights, you'll get the picture. From a practical standpoint, they'll hit the ground at the same time.

..........

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 08, 2020 06:56PM

don,t try too hard Tom..you know what happened to Galileo..lol.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 08, 2020 07:33PM

"Nevertheless.... it revolves."

............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 08, 2020 08:14PM

Ha!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: a rod is not a catapult
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: February 08, 2020 08:16PM

During the development of destructive weapons a catapult called a Trebuchet was built and it describes a long pole with a rope and bucket that hurled a projectile.

[www.youtube.com]

Check the tape starting at time 5:40.there is a good view of how ir works.

If the bucket had feathers they would not go very far and possibly cover the weapon.

If the bucket held a small boulder it would go far and cause a lot of damage.

Something to think about.

John

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster