Hi, Folks. I am starting a glass spinning rod and want to use the balance point to position the reel seat. I put the reel on the seat and slid it onto the blank. Then I taped the fore and rear grips onto the outside of the blank (I don't want to ream the cork until I know where it goes). Trouble is, I would have to cut 2-3" off the butt of the blank to have reasonably good balance. Is there a way to add a bit of weight, say inside the butt of the blank, in order to achieve the right balance without shortening the rod? Or is that just a bad idea!
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Dale

Buy a longer one piece rear grip, split the grips further apart, or install smaller guides, I'd go with the smaller guides first. You didn't mention what kind of rod. A Microwave guides set up saves half the guide weight total in front of my hands on some of my rod builds. Guide weight times the length from your hand of each guide is what you feel and see.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2020 04:22PM by Spencer Phipps.

Dale,
There are many opinions, ideas and methods concerning balancing a rod of which none are wrong and all are correct = personal preference. Balance is totally subjective as one angler may prefer a slightly tip-heavy rod while others prefer a lighter tip. Different types/styles of fishing can effect where the balance point is. I put more emphasis on a lighter weight over-all and let the balance point fall where it may and basically refuse to add weight to the end of the rod butt. The longer a rod is = the more difficult it is to balance. For my trout fishing, if the balance point is 3-4 fingers ahead of the reel stem, I am happy and feel lucky.
I am confused with your question; “Trouble is, I would have to cut 2-3in off the butt of the blank to have reasonably good balance. Is there a way to add a bit of weight, say inside the butt of the blank, in order to achieve the right balance without shortening the rod?” That seems opposite to me; cutting the butt of the blank would reduce weight behind the fulcrum while adding weight would do just that, add weight. Please advise.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

When the rod is being used its balance point will change with the amount of weight being casted - or do you refer to the balance point of a rod before it is ready to use?

Thanks for the input.
Mark, cutting the butt moves the reel forward, adding weight would better balance the rod while not moving up the reel seat (I think).
I think a longer handle may be the best route to take.

I routinely add weight inside the blank to balance a spinning rod. I like to have the rod balanced when it as at rest in my hand no weight on the line. You can use most anything. To achieve the most balance with the least weight you want to keep the weight as close to the end of the blank as possible. Lead works very well. Any type of fishing weights will work. I reload my own ammunition. I have a wide selection of different weight and caliber bullets. They work great. Another thing I recently started using that really helps keep the weight down is tungsten pinewood derby car weights.Being denser than lead you can get the same amount of weight in a smaller package and keep it closer to the butt of the blank. Was able to use about a third less weight on my last build by using the tungsten weights and keeping the weight closer to the butt.

Remember weight is weight. The heavier a rod is, the more downward force it puts on you when holding it. Even if it balances the rod, it is added weight. I found making the lightest rod is the best answer. You will probably find the lightest rod is not that far out of balance, and is easier on the body over a long day of fishing.

I agree in keeping a rod as light as possible . But if the rod is out of balance it will take more force to hold the tip up. For me it is less fatiguing to have a heavier rod just pulling down equally on all my muscles in my wrist and arm, opposed to having to flex only select muscles to keep the rod in a balanced state. Everyone has their preferences. I mainly fish live bait either float rigs or bottom rigs. I like the rod to more or less be floating in my hand regardless of the weight.

Lengthening the butt too far runs the risk of the butt catching on clothing when going from tip up to tip down and vice versa, so be sure to try out your proposed layout before gluing everything up.

Michael Sutheimer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree in keeping a rod as light as possible .
> But if the rod is out of balance it will take more
> force to hold the tip up. For me it is less
> fatiguing to have a heavier rod just pulling down
> equally on all my muscles in my wrist and arm,
> opposed to having to flex only select muscles to
> keep the rod in a balanced state. Everyone has
> their preferences. I mainly fish live bait either
> float rigs or bottom rigs. I like the rod to more
> or less be floating in my hand regardless of the
> weight.


I personally thought the idea of the heavy or tip down was the prime objective of a rod. In simple terms it means it has performed it task well and has a fish on it leading to the heaviness of the tip. Then again maybe some people do not use it for that means

First off ......... lol Ron, good one !!! Having a fish on is definitely the objective.

As far as the more obvious topic of the thread goes ......... some questions first? Dale? You are balancing the rod and reel combination, and not just the rod itself, correct? Also, you do have the guides at least taped on in their approximate locations, correct? Additionally, you have the reel full of line? Hopefully your answer to each of these questions, is yes. If not, the balance point you've chosen, isn't going to be the balance point you end up with. If you're taking the time (and I applaud you for doing so) to put in the work, then you want it to be better than close enough.

As far as the rest of your initial post goes, as Mark mentioned, trimming length off the butt is going to reduce weight and change the balance point. IMO you'd be better off adding weight at the butt. The amount of weight you'd have to add to compensate for 3 or 4 inches of rod blank, would be minimal at best.

I will say that I am in complete agreement with both Michael Sutheimer, and Michael Danek, above. Both are spot on with what they are saying. As Michael D said, determine your rear grip length with the idea of being able to use the rod comfortably. I completely dry build the rod. I put grips on, reel seat on, and I tape the guides on where I believe their approximate positions will be. I then take the reel I will be using on the rod, with it full of line, and I mount it in the reel seat. Then I start balancing.I figure out how much weight I am going to need, and then I set it aside and build the rod. I wait until after I build the rod to do a final balance check. If everything is still good, then I install the weight.

Like Michael S, I add my weight inside the blank. I use foam reel seat arbors and tungsten worm weights. I tape the weight needed to the butt of of the rod, in the position they will be once inside the rod. I then determine how much of the foam arbor I'll need to cover the weights, Cut it to length, then sand it down so that it will slide in the blank. After that I bore the center with a hand held drill bit that is big enough to allow the weights to slide inside. If the blank you're using doesn't have the ID to allow for the use of a foam arbor, you can just use epoxy to hold them in. I use U 40 Rod Bond.


If you do ever want to change it you'll most certainly have to replace the rear grip, but once you get the rear grip out of the way, a heat gun applied to the blank will soften the epoxy enough to allow removal of the weights. Especially if you connect with with a piece of braided fishing line. It gives you a little tag end to pull if need be.

Additionally .... Michael S's beliefs are weight distribution is stated perfectly. The rod may be heavier, but the weight is carried and distributed to larger muscle masses that don't fatigue as easily.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2020 10:25AM by David Baylor.

Dale,
For many years, I would ladd lead tape the butt of the rod to achieve balance. It was easy to do. I would use 3/4 inch wide lead tape and tape it to the butt of the rod blank. Then, when balanced, I would simply glue a butt cap over the lead to conceal the lead.
Easy and it works very well.

Examples of lead tape:
[www.google.com]

There is an adhesive backing on the lead tape, so it is a simple matter to start wrapping the tape on the extreme butt end of the blank and continue until you have sufficient weight or until you have reached the inside diameter of the inside of the butt cap.
If you want more weight, than wrap on an additional row of lead tape.

--------------------
BUT
-------------------
No matter how you cut it, if you add lead to the rod you are adding total weight to the rod. So, even though I had a balanced rod, I had a rod that was heavier than I really wanted.

So, now, I never add weight to a rod. I use as light weight guides as possible. I also use as few guides as possible to still have a line follow the contour of the loaded blank.
-------------------
Now, if I have a very long rod that does not balance - while testing, I simply mount the reel further forward which makes the rear grip longer. Yes, a longer handle may catch on clothing. But, after you may have caught on your clothing once or twice, You will learn to use your rod in such a way that you do not catch on clothing

------------------
Mark and others are correct. If you have a tip heavy rod, cutting length from the butt of the blank, will make the rod even more tip heavy.

Best wishes.

Thanks all for the useful comments. I am aiming for a balance point at the reel stem or just in front. Yes, David, to all of your questions in my method for balancing. I will mock up the entire build, then balance it using some weight (inside the blank) if necessary.

Dale,
Please do NOT put weight inside the blank.
The problem with putting sufficient weight inside the blank is that for many rods, by the time you have enough weight in the inside of the blank, you have put weight the full length of the rear grip. i.e. you are adding weight in the incorrect place.

Basically if you add weight you want bulk weight located at or behind the butt cap of the rod.

Consider that your rod is a teeter totter. Lets say that you have a heavy dude on one end of the teeter totter.
To balance that teeter totter, you could put another heavy dude on the opposite end. Or you could put a small child at the end, and the, continue to add children all of the way up to the teeter or fulcrum of the teeter totter to get the teeter totter to balance. Or, you could stack the children up on each others shoulders to get the balance. You will find that by putting the children on top of each other's shoulders - impractical as it might be, will result in using fewer children to balance the big dude at the other end of the teeter totter.


The same goes for balancing a rod.
Hence my suggestion to use lead tape wrapped around the butt of the rod under the butt cap of the rod.

Or you could use one of these balancer kits and or methods to balance the rod. Essentially most of these systems are nothing more nor less than a weighted butt cap.
But, the nice thing about using an over butt - weighted butt cap, is that you could build the rod just the way that you like and if you have a heavy tip, slip on a weighted butt cap over the current butt cap with enough weight to get the rod to balance.

then, you could fish with it for a week and then over time, remove weight until there is no weight left on the end of butt of the rod. See if your fishing changes, as you make the rod more and more tip heavy - Remember to do this, you make no changes to the build of the rod in an unweighted configuration.

[www.google.com]

Best wishes

What about a split grip rear handle? That would allow you more flexibility with reel placement.

There are some weight adjustable options out there.

Roger brings up a good point about having to put too much weight in the blank. I have never encountered such a situation myself. I have never had to weight more than about two to three inches of a blank. As I mentioned in my first post I use bullets a lot of times. With a wide assortments of calibers I can fit the blank I.D. nearly perfectly. This keeps gaps to a minimum and I don't end up with weight more forward than needed.

Last build I did I used tungsten weights. I approximated what I needed by hanging the weights in a small ziplock bag off the very end of the blank. The weights were sized as such that they would go no further than about three inches into the blank. Weights totaled a bit over two inches. I masking tape shimmed the first weight that went in the blank. I fitted it so as to have about two and a half inches of space. I figured I might need to add a little more weight since I was no longer hanging off the very end of the blank. Anyways even with the weight now a half inch from the end of the blank and forward the blank still balanced out the same.

I have always kept in mind adding to much weight. My thought is if I need to add more than about 25 percent of the weight that balances the rod at the end of the blank, inside the blank I would try another way to balance the rod. Most likely a weighted buttcap. When dealing with ounces I doubt most people will be able to tell 25 percent difference one way or another.

I certainly can't speak to every situation, but I can speak to my personal experience. To begin, I only build rods for myself, and they are all rods that will be used for freshwater bass fishing. I also only balance the rods that I will be using for slack, or semi slack line techniques.With that said, the longest rod I've built thus far has been 7'3" long.

The most weight I have had to add to the butt of one of my rods to achieve my preferred degree of balance ( I prefer tip light) is 2.3/8 oz. The total length of that weight when ready to be installed, was 2 5/16" The rod is 7'2" and has a split rear grip using EVA foam, Distance from the butt of the blank to the back of the reel seat is 9 3/4". In other words, no where close to extending the entire length of the rear grip.

I have never had to add any weight to a rod so I don't know the magnitude of the weights we are talking about. So here goes.

The weight has been added and the rod balanced. Now the price for this has to be paid. The cost will be the extra energy required to carry the heavier rod, trivial, granted but real, the extra weight has to be moved during the casting cycle therefore it will take more force/energy to move the additional weight, trivial, yes, but consider the number of times a rod is cast during a days fishing, it adds up to a lot of extra energy expended. Bottom line is even though the rod is balanced extra weight is extra weight that takes energy to move.

If the rod is out of balance and the user can't adapt or compensate for the unbalance then the only choices would to rebuild the rod using lighter components, lines, reels or make a new rod or last resort add the weight to the existing rod and pay the price.

Have fun

John

John,
There are a lot of rod blanks on the market that if built with a typical reel seat and a shorter length rear grip will never balance with no weight even if there are no guide or tip top on the rod.

Therefore, the choices are two.

Use a longer rear grip to move the reel seat forward to balance the rod, or add weight behind the butt end of the rod.