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Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Jason Yu (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 11:35AM

Hello,

Recently I decided I wanted to redo my guide spacing on a medium power Bass rod I built when I first got into this hobby.
It’s a Rainshadow Eternity 7’2 Medium blank with Fuji K torzite guides (11 + Tip-top). I did not follow the manufacturers guide spacing chart and used a Fuji guide spacing chart that came with my Fuji guide kit from Mudhole. Recently, after load testing the blank I noticed the line barely touching the top of the blank on a few spots, I want to strip the guides off the blank and respace them properly. I would like to reuse the 7KW and 6KB guides and set aside 3x 5KT guides for a later build I have planned in the near future.

The current guide layout: 7KW > 6KB > 5KT x9 (the Fuji kit came this way)

The new guide layout I am wanting: 8KW > 7KW > 6KB > 5KB > 5KB > 5KT x6

Preferably I would like to add another KW, I know I can get away with only have 1 KW guide.
Is there any issue with this new guide layout concept I came up with? Or any tips?

Thanks.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 11:39AM by Jason Yu.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 12:13PM

The the guide kit and spacing chart given by Mudhole, are Mudhole’s guide kit and spacing chart, not Fuji’s!
If you want to do a KR Concept for your casting rod then do it as recommended by Fuji. Since you are using titanium framed guides, you can use either an RV6 or a KW10 as the stripper, followed by a KW5.5, or KB5.5 (or use your KB6). The RV6 or KW10 give you the right height for the stripper guide. Then follow this with your size 5 KB/KT runners. This will give you a Fuji recommended KR guide setup. I think 10 total guides will be plenty for that rod. Place the stripper any where from 19” to 21” in front of your reel, I like 20”. The first runner guide should be about 9 to11 cm (~3.5” to 4.3”) from the tip top. Use the two line static test to place the other runners.
Norm

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Jason Yu (---.sub-174-240-13.myvzw.com)
Date: January 08, 2020 12:32PM

Thanks Norm,

But I am wanting to redo the guides using what I already have.

Are you telling me to ditch the 7KW stripper altogether? Rainshadow guide spacing blueprint recommends 11 guides + Tiptop. I would prefer to just stick with the recommend amount of guides.

Can I do the 10KW to 7KW to 6KB then the 5KT runners?

I don’t want a spare 7KW and a 6KB guide laying around.

note: I have used the rod as is right now several times, it’s fine nothing major is wrong with it, it cast well and I’ve caught a fair amount of large fish with it, but the line touching the blank gives me anxiety, so I want to redo it.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 01:03PM by Jason Yu.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 01:07PM

Jason,
Actually, if it were my rod and I was in your situation, I would likely just use the rod as is.

But, to easily. solve your problem, you just have to look at the loaded rod and purchase about 2 additional guides - that are identical to the ones that are on your rod. Then, just move the affected area guides closer together and add either one, two or three more guides and you will be good to go.

If the line never rubs in the lower portion of the rod, you don't need to change anything. I expect that the only place that you have line rubbing is in the runner area of the rod, so, just add the appropriate number of the same running guides that are on the rod and you will be good to go.

Remember, a "recommended guide set", is exactly that - RECOMMENDED, but not mandatory.

Certainly Norman's solution will work very well as well.

---------------------------------
Any time that I build a rod, I tape the guides in their expected final position, put a reel on the rod, thread the line through the guides and tip top. Then, place the tip of the rod against the ceiling to use a push point and load the rod so that the blank si fully loaded as deflected from the tip. Then, tighten up on the line, and carefully examine the line path to be sure that the line path follows the contour of the loaded blank - without touching the blank - if that is what you want.

By the way, having the line touch or brush along the top surface of the blank is really not a big deal and is quite common for many many rods - especially when building casting rods with the line on top of the rod.
However, if the guides are so short, and if the line actually comes below the bottom of the rod; then perhaps one might want to add more guides or change to a different type of guide.

Best wishes.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 01:08PM

If it's me, I would do it as a KR concept, as I outlined above. With that said, you could certainly go KW10, KW7, to KB6, followed by you KT5 runners, to save yourself from spending more money, and having left over guides that you won't use. It will work just fine. A casting rod setup is very forgiving. Since you are not going to use any more KB runners do a locking wrap. I personally think Mudhole has a problem with their KR guide kits because they don't follow the Fuji recommended KR guide usage, with neither their casting and spinning KR guide kits. There will be some people that will say the KW7 would work fine as the stripper. In my opinion, the higher KW10 or RV6 just seems to give smoother casting performance. I have tried size 6 and 8 strippers and they just don't seem to work as well as the higher strippers, but that could just be me.
PS - it will be very difficult to keep the line totally off the blank when using low profile running guides. You just want to make sure that the like does not go below the blank. If you don't want the line to touch the blank then do a spiral wrap. It will cast just as well and will handle fish better and you can use fewer guides.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 01:18PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 01:13PM

If the only reason you're redoing the rod is to keep the line from barely touching the blank, I'd fish it as it is, there is nothing wrong with the line touching the blank.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 08, 2020 01:49PM

To directly answer the 7KW usability question, I expect the rod casts well now, right? Then don't bother changing it. Use it and go on to other builds.

I do my casting rods the same way Norman does, with the KR then a few KB's, then KT's to the end. All past the KR are the same size, usually 5 1/2's.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Jason Yu (---)
Date: January 08, 2020 05:20PM

Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated.

It irks me that Mudhole would sell this, Fuji recommends at least 3 KB guides after the stripper guide but they only include 1 with the kit.
I’ve bought several of these Fuji Titanium Torzite kits, they aren’t cheap. But luckily this specific blank is the only one that’s given me the problem. The other builds seem fine. I am somewhat of a perfectionist, I have to be as I’m in the engineering field.

I tie a FG knot for my leader to braid knots and I’ve haven’t had much of an issue with casting through the 5KT runners.

Fun fact: I’ve tried the load test on my factory rods (St.Croix & G.Loomis rods) they use the traditional larger guide train The line goes under the blank and the line rubs the side of the blank??? I don’t know what’s considered industry acceptable but I found this odd.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 06:13PM by Jason Yu.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 08, 2020 06:03PM

Jason, It irks a lot of us. Being led in the wrong direction is no help to any of us, especially not to beginning builders. I believe it does builders a disservice.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 08, 2020 09:03PM

I really hate trying to remove wrapped and coated guides, it always leaves a mark on the blank that is real chore to get off. You also take the chance of cutting the blank when doing it. As you observed the old style of guide placement puts the line under the blank so a little touching under load still isn't as bad as that. If it really bothers you give the rod away or sell it as used and make another. That is why we do this and this is actually a good excuse to make another one. Try coming up with your own guide layout and do a static load test to see if it will work. Another thing is when you get the guides wrapped before you apply epoxy put the rod under load one more time to make sure it is right. This is when I also do a final adjustment for guide alignment.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Jason Yu (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: January 08, 2020 11:58PM

Lance, thanks for the insight. A lot of what you said crossed my mind. With every rod I build I’m getting better, and I’ve enjoyed using something I’ve created with my hands compared to the rods I’ve bought. It surprised me that even rods from high end manufacturers also have flaws even if they are acceptable. I will take what everyone has said into consideration.

Thanks,



Lance Schreckenbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really hate trying to remove wrapped and coated
> guides, it always leaves a mark on the blank that
> is real chore to get off. You also take the chance
> of cutting the blank when doing it. As you
> observed the old style of guide placement puts the
> line under the blank so a little touching under
> load still isn't as bad as that. If it really
> bothers you give the rod away or sell it as used
> and make another. That is why we do this and this
> is actually a good excuse to make another one. Try
> coming up with your own guide layout and do a
> static load test to see if it will work. Another
> thing is when you get the guides wrapped before
> you apply epoxy put the rod under load one more
> time to make sure it is right. This is when I also
> do a final adjustment for guide alignment.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: January 09, 2020 12:29PM

As far as I know the only solutions to prevent the line touching the rod blank on a conventional rod while fighting a big fish would be to use really TALL guides or use a whole MESS of guides.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 09, 2020 02:28PM

If one uses 20 micro running guides on a 7-8 foot there will be no issue with the line touching the blank.

But, you don't have to use really tall casting guides and fewer of them. You just need to use the size guides that have been used for the last 40 years that never had any issue with the line touching the blank.

Best wishes

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: January 09, 2020 07:03PM

i remember a rod that had the line contacting the blank the whole length..i think they were called inline rods..many people liked them..

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: January 09, 2020 08:35PM

40 years ago there was a lot of Fuji SV guides being sold, and the smallest guide you could convince yourself to use was a size 8, lots of good water under that bridge.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Jason Yu (12.250.65.---)
Date: January 10, 2020 04:16PM

I think from now on I'm going to do it this way;

KW10 > KW6 > KW5.5 > KB5 > KB5 > KB5> KB5 > KT5 >*>*>*> 5.5 Arowana TipTop.

And the stripper guide being 20-21" from the front of the reel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2020 04:18PM by Jason Yu.

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Re: Redoing guides on rod (Need Advice)
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 10, 2020 06:15PM

Your'e all set.

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