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Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Robby Shumate (---.90.21.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 11:22AM

Hello All
I am new to the forum. I have built about 9 rods scince starting this hobby a couple of years a go. Ive built 5 rods for bass fishing using St.Croix blanks and the rest have been rod kits from MudHole. I am in the process of building a bass rod using a St. Croix 2SW76MHF (7'6" - MH). I plan on using Mico Guides on the blank. Called St.Croix and they said it would work but would not give me any spacing recommendations for Micro Guides.

My question is, has anybody used Micro Guide to build on this blank or one like it. I also have some measurement from fuji and mudhole on blanks close to the one I am using and measurments from a Duckett rod that I use. The measurements are below. Also I know I probably need to do a static bend test. All the images I can find seem to be for spinning rods with the guides facing down. I am building a baitcaster rod, so should my guides be facing up or down to do the test.

Fuji -- 2 - 4 - 6.5 - 9.375 - 12.625 - 16.375 - 20.625 - 25.5 - 31.250 - 37.875 - 45.375 - 54 ( 12 Guides)

MHX -- 2 - 4 - 6.5 - 9.375 - 12.625 - 16.375 - 20.625 - 25.5 - 31.250 - 37.875 - 45.375 - 54 ( 12 Guides) (Measurements same as Fuji)

Duckett -- 2.750 - 5.5 - 8.875 - 12.375 - 16.437 - 20.687 - 25.437 - 30.375 - 36.187 - 44 - 54 (11 Guides)

Thanks for any help

Robby

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---)
Date: January 06, 2020 12:27PM

Robby

If you are referring to ATC's MicroWave Guides look at the packaging for a guide location recommendation for 7' 6" rods.

Unless you intend to build a spiral / acid wrap, tape the guides in place as securely as your can with the guides up - guide rings on the 0 axis. Ideally the line ought not touch the rod during the load test, else you will need to add a running guide.

All guide location charts and even blank manufacturer published guide locations are only recommendations, are not etched in stone, and the final authority is the stress test and you.

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Robby Shumate (---.90.21.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 01:32PM

Thanks Donald

Being new to rod building jargon .... Is O axis the spine? And the guides should be on the spine facing up?

Thanks
Robby

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: January 06, 2020 02:10PM

"0-axis" generally refers to whatever axis is on top. 0 meaning the top of the rod and 180 referring to the bottom.

Spine doesn't really matter although you may want to research that topic a bit more in the archives on this forum.

.........

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Ken Brown 2 (---.229.247.206.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 03:54PM

I have built maybe 10 rods at this point and the only time I used a set spacing was on my first rod. The static load test is the true definer of where the guides should be. I usually will do a load test with a reel I plan to use so there are no 'gotchas' when I go to use the rod. I use hair ties that I stole from the wifey..just cut them in half. They have a decent hold for a static load test then I mark the blank with a grease pencil where the feet will meet the blank.

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 04:56PM

He's doing a casting rod, if I read the original post correctly.

Guides should be on the side you plan to build them on for the stress test. This is especially important for micros since they are so low. If you build on top you may want to add a couple to keep the line from crossing under the blank when stressed. Consider the simple spiral which should use fewer guides and works just fine, with any toque under stress eliminated (there won't be much anyway since the micros are so low).

Come back with what your intent is and you'll get more help.

I build all my casting rods with the Fuji RV for the first guide, then a few KB's (more on cast than spin, more on heavier powers) then KT's to the top. After the RV all the guides may be the same size. I use 4's or 4 1/2 on spin, 5 1/2 on cast. I see no need to go smaller. But that is a matter of preference rather than big differences in performance. Since I use leaders/braid, a knot needs to be considered. Although the FG can go through about any guide size, if you can tie it.

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 06, 2020 05:48PM

Robby,
Just take the blank and put a full load on the rod - pulling down from the tip.

Then, put guides on the side of the blank where they will normally be placed at an interval to be no more, nor mo less than the required and spacing required to insure that the line follows the contour of the loaded blank, without touching the rod.

With a very stiff rod, and a very stiff tip, you will require fewer guides than if you are building a much softer rod with a much softer tip.

Best wishes

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: January 06, 2020 07:40PM

If I am reading your dimensions properly, it looks like you have a guide 2" from the tip? Or 2.75" from the tip on the Duckett rod? And that each successive guide's location is being measured from the tip as well? If that is the case it means that on 2 of the rods you have 2 guides withing 4" of the tip of the tip of the rod. I would be pretty confident in saying that you wouldn't need that many guides so close to the tip.

I tried to look up the specs for the blank you mentioned to see if any of the rods I've built had similar specs. I was unable to find any information, so I picked one of my rods that I thought would be close to what I thought they might be. Although I notice an SW in the nomenclature, which may mean salt water, so it may be more powerful than a similar fresh water rod.

Just to give you an idea, as far as spacing, I measured the guide spacing on a rod I built on a Rainshadow Immortal IMMC72MH. It's the longest rod I have with specs that I thought might match the blank you named. It's 7'2" with a named power of medium heavy. Rated for weights from 3/8 - 1 oz, with a fast action. The guide train consists of 3 Fuji BLNA double foot guides for the reduction train. Sizes 10,8, and 6. The rest of the guides are Fuji BLAG in size 4.5. I measured from the end of the tip top, to each successive guide. The spacing is as follows.

3.375", 6.875", 9.25", 12", 15". 18.375", 22.125", 25.875", 29.75", 34.875", 42,125" and 51.875" I have a distance of 21.25" from the butt or stripper guide, to the front of the line guide on the reel. 12 guides total, plus the tip top.

As you can see, the closest guide I have to the tip top is almost 4" and in actuality I probably could have pushed that another .25" further down the blank. I used static load to place all of the guides except for butt guide. I will also say that my spacing is probably closer than most people would make them, and that the number of guides I have on this rod or any of my rods, is greater than others would use. I do this for two reason. First and probably foremost is, I am a tournament bass fisherman, and I know that I put my rods in some precarious positions while landing fish. The extra guides and the bit closer spacing helps to protect the blank some what. And second, I don't like the line touching the blank. I allow it to get very close, but not to touch.

When I do set up the static load I set the rod up and load per CCS criteria of a fully loaded rod. Basically I load it as if I were testing for an IP number to determine the power of the rod.

Anyhow, I hope what I posted gives you an idea of spacing. As others have said, use static load to place your running guides. It will show you where they need to be. From there you only need to decide on how closely you want your line's path, to follow that of the curve of the blank.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2020 07:42PM by David Baylor.

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Robby Shumate (---.90.21.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 09:44PM

Wow guys thanks for all the info... need to digest a while

The St Croix blank I'm using is light salt water and will be a baitcaster used for fresh water bass fishing in heavy cover.... we live in florida and fish a lot of dollar pads with thick grass. We use 65 lb braid and use a lot of soft plastic frogs. We have this same rod blank that I built with regular size guide and built to St Croix specs and has performed very well for us. My son wanted the same rod with micro guides to cut down on weight, we fish alot of tournaments and the little weight reduction helps a lot. Never have done a stress test but looking forward using the advise given. I'll update when I test.

Thanks
Robby

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 09:52PM

You have built enough rods to start using your own spacing. There is a lot of downloadable software that you can use to get you in the ball park then as everyone else suggested static load testing to tweak. Typically the guide closest to the tip top does not need to be any closer than about 3.25" from it (static load testing should confirm this). Also if you go with a spiral wrap you won't need as many guides to keep it from touching the blank under load. As stated earlier the spine is not that great of a factor, the thing you can see is the curve of the blank so you need to figure out tip up or tip down. I prefer tip down but many here prefer tip up.

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Re: Micro Guide Spacing
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dthn.centurylink.net)
Date: January 07, 2020 12:17PM

[anglersresource.net]

Guide placement is the number one bamboozler for new rod builders. Bookmark this page, read it, study it, learn it and you will never have to ask this question again for ANY casting layout.

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