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TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 05, 2020 01:29AM

Hi guys, Who on here has experience with heavy topwater spin rods and Torzite guides. Topwater rods for (GT,Tuna,Kingfish etc)

I made a post a few months back about a loose Torzite ring. There was also a cracked tip which I found later. This time I have a cracked ring that completely fell out.

This rod was made in October CTS Seamaster PE 4-6 and has been used for casting stickbaits up to 150g to Kingfish (yellowtail) using an FG knot and 80 -100lb leader. Would have put about 30hrs on it. Caught some fish and lots of casting all from a boat.

Having three guides have issue in such a small amount of time tells me something is not right. The tip I thought I might of knocked it sweeping but that would be a hard knock to crack a guide and something you would remember.

My rods are treated very well and always transported in rod sleeves. 1400hrs of boat fishing over the last 5yrs and no other rod has had guide issues. Even my 20yr old rock fishing rods that I built dont have or have ever had a cracked guide. Rocks fishing isn't kind to gear.

The only other rod I have with KW Torzite guides is a Jigging rod. PE 8 CTS SD Jig and its has been through approx 500hrs of hard boat fishing, a big trip to NZ with multiple 30+kg kingfish and multiple smaller kingfish back home off Sydney.

Could the Guide Train reduction cause excess knocking from a knot? 30, 20, 12, 10, 10 ,10, 10tip. The 12 ring was loose and the 10 cracked. Not knocking sound when casting.

I have made the same rod for a customer with the SIC Slim TKWSG using the same guide train. Not a problem.

My big question is.. Are Torzite guides not suitable for Medium to heavy spin for Stickbaits and Poppers. Medium to heavy being PE 4 - PE 10. 40lbs to 100lb

Im very aware manufacturing faults can happen and I don't like making claims that could potentially damage companies etc. So please don't think these amazing guides are faulty. I'm just here looking for answers.

Cheers

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 05, 2020 12:31PM

Adam,
Unusual for sure.

Replace any of the cracked and broken guides and move on.

If they crack or break again, then replace them with something different.

No general field reports of customer problems with these guides.

Just one note:
In all of the years of fishing, using rods, building rods and rebuilding rods - with guides of all sort'; I have found that about 90% of the guide issues have happened as a result of physical damage to the guide - somewhere in its life on the rod.

When I talked with the folks for whose rod I was repairing, nearly everyone of them could detail the time and date when the damage occurred.

But, as the saying goes - if you don't like something - change to something that you do like.

---------------
One thing that you might do, is to see if you can trace the lot number of guides that were put on the rod. Did you purchase all of the guides from a single vendor at a single time? If so, you might go back to the vendor and inquire to the vendor as to whether any other customers who purchased the same guides in the same time frame as you - has had any issues with their guides. As the CDC does in their investigations - find patient Zero. It is doubtful, but perhaps a bad batch slipped through, or perhaps there was some sore of environmental event that affected the guides before your receipt of the guides. Just speculating.

Best wishes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 05, 2020 06:02PM

Well somethings not right , i have yet to hear a single complaint from anybody about a Fuji Titanium Torzite guide having issues . I would have bet the house that a SIC ring would be more crack prone than a ring made of Torzite but as your situation has proved anything can happen. Did a ball of cotton indicate the crack in the tip top ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 05, 2020 07:27PM

Adam,
Have you been in touch with the Fuji people about your experience??
Herb

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: January 05, 2020 10:03PM

Adam,
I am as surprised and bewildered as anyone that you are experiencing difficulties/failures with any Fuji component, in this case and especially TKWT guides = they should be the crème de crème. Even if the guides were exposed to unusually rough treatment, they should hold up better than the more brittle SiC guides as Herb C. stated. I would rest assured that Fuji / Anglers Resource is equally concerned and will assist discovering the root of the problem; unfortunately that may not help your immediate needs. Something tells me Jin Isling will read this and address the issue personally, promptly and professionally.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 06, 2020 12:21AM

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adam,
> Unusual for sure.
>
> Replace any of the cracked and broken guides and
> move on.
>
> If they crack or break again, then replace them
> with something different.
>
> No general field reports of customer problems with
> these guides.
>
> Just one note:
> In all of the years of fishing, using rods,
> building rods and rebuilding rods - with guides of
> all sort'; I have found that about 90% of the
> guide issues have happened as a result of physical
> damage to the guide - somewhere in its life on
> the rod.
>
> When I talked with the folks for whose rod I was
> repairing, nearly everyone of them could detail
> the time and date when the damage occurred.
>
> But, as the saying goes - if you don't like
> something - change to something that you do like.
>
>
> ---------------
> One thing that you might do, is to see if you can
> trace the lot number of guides that were put on
> the rod. Did you purchase all of the guides from
> a single vendor at a single time? If so, you
> might go back to the vendor and inquire to the
> vendor as to whether any other customers who
> purchased the same guides in the same time frame
> as you - has had any issues with their guides. As
> the CDC does in their investigations - find
> patient Zero. It is doubtful, but perhaps a bad
> batch slipped through, or perhaps there was some
> sore of environmental event that affected the
> guides before your receipt of the guides. Just
> speculating.
>
> Best wishes.

Hi Rodger, Thanks for your insight. Sure is unusual. I normally associate cracked guides from some kind of impact as well but to have a loose ring, then and cracked tip, then a cracked ring all in the space of a few months on a new build without any heavy knocks or damage to the rod or guides while all my other rods that have had way more abuse and hours spent fishing are fine tells me there could be an issue.

Yes they are from the one supplier and possibly from the same batch. This I will find out.

If there was a faulty batch that would be great as I'd rather keep using Torzite as I have designed my builds around this guide. Apart from being light they are far superior for heavy fighting fish when it comes to friction. I can noticeably feel the difference between Torzite and SIC when casting and fighting.

One theory I have is the Torzite ring is not rounded like the SIC and thus has that edge where a knot could "knock" the guide while casting. After 1000's of casts this could damage the ring?

Cheers

Adam

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 06, 2020 12:31AM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well somethings not right , i have yet to hear a
> single complaint from anybody about a Fuji
> Titanium Torzite guide having issues . I would
> have bet the house that a SIC ring would be more
> crack prone than a ring made of Torzite but as
> your situation has proved anything can happen.
> Did a ball of cotton indicate the crack in the tip
> top ?

I agree. I found small marks in the braid every 1.5m from where I would wind and sweep.

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 06, 2020 12:34AM

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adam,
> Have you been in touch with the Fuji people about
> your experience??
> Herb

Only the distributor here in Australia.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 06, 2020 12:39AM

Mark Talmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adam,
> I am as surprised and bewildered as anyone that
> you are experiencing difficulties/failures with
> any Fuji component, in this case and especially
> TKWT guides = they should be the crème de crème.
> Even if the guides were exposed to unusually rough
> treatment, they should hold up better than the
> more brittle SiC guides as Herb C. stated. I would
> rest assured that Fuji / Anglers Resource is
> equally concerned and will assist discovering the
> root of the problem; unfortunately that may not
> help your immediate needs. Something tells me Jin
> Isling will read this and address the issue
> personally, promptly and professionally.

Hi Mark, Yes Im hoping that it can be resolved and Im sure Fuji will have some input.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dthn.centurylink.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 09:55AM

Adam, complaints about TORZITE® are very rare, to say the least. Please send me the sizes and we will replace the guides. TORZITE represents Fuji's effort to create a very light, very low-friction, premium guide. TORZITE is exceptionally resilient and features "next-level" polish, but keep in mind that the other part of the equation - light weight, a slim ring and a more open ID. There's a real balancing act going on with TORZITE and it's up to the task 99.99% of the time. My email is jising@anglersresource.net.

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 06, 2020 08:17PM

Thanks Jim. Will contact you shortly.

Cheers

Adam

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 09:11PM

Just one other point about Adams comment about the ring design and shape. Torzite offers certain sizes in an " F " designation which means "Flanged" and an " R" designation which means 'Recessed" i believe and the F versions are more rounded in their designs to prevent the things the OP has experienced.

I chose the "R" version for certain guides and the "F" version for others as i believe the large RV guides all have the "F" designation. The "F" versions are far more popular by the way .

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 06, 2020 10:02PM

Save yourself some money and use different guides that will hold up. The ring material is not as important as the manufacturers suggest. The guide frame structure, guide material and the way the ceramic ring is inserted into it is though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 07, 2020 12:14AM

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just one other point about Adams comment about the
> ring design and shape. Torzite offers certain
> sizes in an " F " designation which means
> "Flanged" and an " R" designation which means
> 'Recessed" i believe and the F versions are more
> rounded in their designs to prevent the things the
> OP has experienced.
>
> I chose the "R" version for certain guides and the
> "F" version for others as i believe the large RV
> guides all have the "F" designation. The "F"
> versions are far more popular by the way .

Herb this is interesting I had no idea that the F version was for choke guides. So the flange faces the reel? My guides are just standard. Could also explain why the ring was loose on the choke and the next guide up. The only info I could find was from 2015 and it mentions F as being designed for for choke guides and Tip Tops. The F ring was released a year after Fuji released the Torzite. This was possibly to combat the issue that im having...Why did I not know about this? :(


There's definitely not enough information around about the different versions not even in the Fuji catalogue.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: January 07, 2020 08:00PM

Adam i really do not think you should be having the experiences you have had regardless of whether the guide has a "Flanged" designation or a "Recessed" designation so i still think it's got to be some type of manufacturing flaw related to a certain "Lot" number .

I know the Fuji's RV guides all have the "Flange" design and Fuji i believe does offer "Choke" specific sizes in the "F" designation . The guides i was talking about are those guides that are meant for the reduction train and people refer to the largest reduction guide as either a Collector or Stripper which comes well before the "Choke" guide . Tip tops of Titanium Torzite with the flanged ring design are the most popular type . I settled for a Titanium Torzite tip top with the "R" designation because all the flanged versions were out of stock .

I haven't had any issues whatsoever which i didn't expect to have , both versions should be exceptionally reliable.

I know you're fishing for GT's , you got guts lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2020 08:05PM by herb canter.

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Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 09, 2020 11:54PM

Thanks Herb,

I agree. I shouldn't be having problems. The big issue for me is I cant get a definite answer on whether Torzite is suitable for heavy spinning rods, casting heavy lures to heavy hitting fish.

I want to trust my gear and my builds and to know my customers won't have a problem. Losing a trophy fish is the worst possible outcome.

What I've gathered from speaking to people in the industry is there isn't many specialty topwater rods out there that have Torzite guides and Im hearing through the grapevine that for GT/ Expedition fishing it might be better to use SIC.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: January 10, 2020 12:03AM

Adam,
Get a new lot of guides from the noted supplier and rebuild the rod with the new set of guides.

Then, come back in a year or two and let us know if you have had any issues with any of the guides.

Also, be sure that you purchase the correct sit of flanged Torzite guides and see how it all shakes out for you.

Best wishes

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: TKWT Torzite problems
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: January 12, 2020 02:28AM

Thanks everyone for their advice.

Just so we're clear what I'm discussing does not reflect on Fuji's quality or using Torzite for other builds. I'm building topwater rods for the big dogs. Yellowtail Kingfish, GT, Dogtooth Tuna.. The hardest meanest fighting fish you can get on a lure. 100's of casts per session with heavy lures, heavy leader, Locked drag, shallow water and holding on for dear life. Hooks bend, knots pull, split rings open, there's no finesse any weak point will be exposed. Everything must be on point, angler included. It's all about trusting your gear. I'm also trying to build rods of the highest quality using the best materials available.

I've talked to quite a few people regarding the issue I have experienced. No direct answer as yet. I feel there just isn't many topwater rods out there with Torzite guides in a heavy use environment to know if they are capable and I possibly could be at the limit of Torzite. There's no doubt that TKWT are of the highest quality available but maybe not suited to the kind of fishing Im building rods for. And that's fine with me. I just like to know what I'm dealing with before casting to that fish of a lifetime.

Interestingly if you look at some of the high end rod brands that are well known in the industry as the go to rods for heavy topwater. Carpenter, MC Works, Ripple Fisher, Fisherman, Zenaq, NS Blackhole, Racepoint etc they are all using MN SIC guides for the heavier PE6-8 rods and KW for the lighter PE6 and down.

I've been told there are various reason for using MN and KW SIC in stainless. Just a few is Price point , MN has less leverage against sideways pull ,the KW Titanium twists under heavy load , the heavier KW and MN staino sic guides are better for the action of the blank, KW and MN don't chafe the braid as much as the KW Titanium, MN is better for transport MN casts better on the same rod with KW etc etc. Hard to say what is going on and even harder to find out.

From a business point of view it seems odd not to offer at least one heavy rod out of their range with the KW guides unless they have been tested and were found not suitable for my above description. Being that KW guides have been out for 10yrs there must be some merit in their decision.

For my CTS PE 4-6 rod that had the loose ring issue I will try the flange torzite guides with the RV stripper guide combo as this has been suggested to give it ago.

Im also building up a CTS Seamaster popper in PE8. For this I think I will run the MN and see how it goes.
I have a topwater trip to Fiji in March. My mate is bringing the same PE8 rod with the TKWT that I built for him.

If something is going to fail that will be the test.

Cheers

Adam

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