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Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 23, 2019 01:11PM

What is your position on the building of fly rods regarding placement of the spine? More power on the fighting of the fish and back cast stroke, or more power on the loading for the forward casting stroke. I've been told that more power on the forward stroke can cause the tip to move in ellipses causing casting problems.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 23, 2019 02:02PM

Michael,
I will spine the blank pieces as a reference but because sometimes (50/50) they can curve in another direction, I will go with the visual curve and align all pieces to that. Otherwise you will have a "crooked" looking finished rod. This applies to all the rods I make. If I can determine and a spine that goes with the visual curve (or close to it) I will put the ark up. I guess this comes from me working as a carpenter when I was young. In reality I honestly believe it makes no difference because I have done it on identical blanks and rods without a perceived difference. I have found that most blanks have more than one spine and depending on where pressure is applied along the length or the stationary distance from the tip, it will change. There usually appears to be a major spine and one not so distinct. The major would be; blank straight up with butt on ground and pressure applied to the tip, I call this bend the major spine. The minor or other (may be multiple) would be blank at angle butt on ground, stationary point about 1' from tip with pressure applied center rod. By moving the stationary point from the tip, the spine may change. I think if there is a difference in performance it can barely be noticed.
Tight Lines,
Lance



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 02:22PM by Lance Schreckenbach.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---)
Date: December 23, 2019 02:07PM

Put the question to 6 fly rod builders and you'll get at least 5 different answers. Truly.

I used to religiously roll, bend, sight, etc. to be certain I found the dominate spine and aligned guides opposite the spine - the inside of the curve. I now build on the straightest axis and say the heck with the spine. Frankly I could detect no difference if the guides were opposite the spine, on the spine, or 90 degrees from the spine. Have not built a zero weight or a 14 so maybe at the extremes it makes a difference. But 1 through 12 weights, and regardless of whether bamboo, glass, or carbon fiber I build on the straightest axis.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---)
Date: December 23, 2019 02:07PM

Put the question to 6 fly rod builders and you'll get at least 5 different answers. Truly.

I used to religiously roll, bend, sight, etc. to be certain I found the dominate spine and aligned guides opposite the spine - the inside of the curve. I now build on the straightest axis and say the heck with the spine. Frankly I could detect no difference if the guides were opposite the spine, on the spine, or 90 degrees from the spine. Have not built a zero weight or a 14 so maybe at the extremes it makes a difference. But 1 through 12 weights, and regardless of whether bamboo, glass, or carbon fiber I build on the straightest axis.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 23, 2019 02:50PM

The softest and stiffest axis on a blank are not usually 180 degrees apart.

I build on the straightest axis, belly down, butt and tip up. This provides the greatest deadlift capability and generally the highest possible speed.

...........

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Bill Hickey (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: December 23, 2019 03:52PM

Straightest axis, like Tom K does.

Couple of years ago I took two identical Fiberglass 8'-6" 3pc 5wts, built out with the same components, twins, except, one on Straightest Axis, the other on the Spine. You could not tell a difference, they both cast the same. Had a few "expert builders" cast them as well, they could not pick out which one was which and they also could not see a difference in how they cast.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 23, 2019 04:41PM

Thanks, all. Tom , can you elaborate on "belly down, butt and tip up?" I think I know, but would like to be sure.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 23, 2019 05:39PM

Mike

You put the rod on a flat-level surface and roll it, when the "belly" is down (touching the table) the butt & tip will be off the table.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 23, 2019 07:18PM

[swiftflyfishing.com]

[www.flyrodcrafters.com]

Regards,
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 07:20PM by Herb Ladenheim.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 23, 2019 07:55PM

Herb Ladenheim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [swiftflyfishing.com]
> ning-a-fly-rod-to-spine-or-not-to-spine?gclid=Cj0K
> CQiA6IHwBRCJARIsALNjViW4C0EYQw9ypW77mvcKalvCRwW_qQ
> 8ZAEkNwzEaLckqCeNNLGrqKAMaAilAEALw_wcB
>
> [www.flyrodcrafters.com]
> -to-spine/
>
> Regards,
> Herb


They're wrong - spine location neither causes nor solves rod twist - that is an issue of guides and their level arm effect. They should know better.


............

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: December 23, 2019 11:03PM

Sometimes things get out there, and the myth never dies. When they are asked to prove their point, the crickets start chirping. Even if it was true I think you'd have to have a very powerful rods to compare to each other to prove the point one way or another.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 24, 2019 07:13AM

Thanks everyone, much appreciated.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: david taylor (---)
Date: December 24, 2019 05:23PM

Consult a Oija board. Then do the opposite. Ha, ha. However you decide to align your guides, on anything but a dog-poop quality, very crooked blank, I don't think most folks will know the difference when casting. If you fly lands 1/2 inch to the left or right, I doubt the trout will mind much either.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: December 25, 2019 10:49AM

As long as the rod sections don't twist during the cast a competent fly caster will compensate for the rod's point of aim, just like he will compensate for a crosswind.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 25, 2019 11:40AM

The concerns of the person who reported this issue were about tailing loops, not accuracy. Others on that forum have disputed his position, as have those on this forum. But the concern was not accuracy.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: December 25, 2019 04:26PM

Tailing loops are technique caused, I've never cast a rod that caused them.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 25, 2019 08:35PM

Spencer is correct. They have a number of technique causes, but none by equipment.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: December 26, 2019 08:34AM

The path of the tip-top determines the path of the fly line.

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Re: Soliciting the opinions of expert fly builders, please
Posted by: Laurent Keiff (37.172.101.---)
Date: December 28, 2019 11:00PM

I never read any serious blind test report to back any claim wrt the difference it makes. I'm convinced such differences are not detectable.
Now one needs to believe in their own gear, and be confident one did their best while building the rod.
So pick up a system an go with it, just please don't forget it's just poorly justified beliefs.
I tend to follow straightest axis, then flex the blank to ask it how it wants to flex. I listen to it, and put the guides inside the curve.

_______________________________________________
If I'm not going to catch anything, then I'd rather not catch anything on flies.

Prostaff Rodhouse
[www.rodhouse.fr]

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