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Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Steve Cox (---.client.mchsi.com)
Date: December 14, 2019 08:10PM

What issue of Magazine had Spiral Wrap article? Is the current recommendation for '1' bumper at 90* or '2' bumpers, one at 60* and one at 120*? Bumpers for a Right Hander = What side? Thanks

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 14, 2019 08:46PM

Too many articles in RodMaker on spiral wraps to mention.

First off, "bumper" guides do not transition the line. They just keep the line from rubbing the blank. The Simple Spiral has ZERO transition guides. You have a guide at 0 and one at 180. The line is allowed to go where it wants to naturally go. If you are adverse to the line rubbing the blank between those two guides, you install a "bumper" guide at 90 degrees. But the Bumper guide is not part of the normal spacing - it's an addition after the fact.

..........

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 15, 2019 08:39AM

Steve,
Lots of ways to do the spiral.
All that you are doing is to get the line from on top of the rod, to the underside of the rod.

I personally prefer to use the "revolver style where I start with the stripper guide at about 3-5 degrees in the direction of rotation. Then, one at 60,. one at 120 and the final one at 180 degrees.

A nice way for the direction of the spiral is to have the line rotate around the rod, so that if the rod is laying on the deck with the handle laying up, any guides that are on the side of the rod are on the same side as the handle of the reel. This means that when the reel is laid down, none of the guides are laying on the deck.

I start with the stripper guide at 0 degrees. Then, with all of the guides taped in place, I will pull out about 100 feet of line. Then, holding gentle tension on the line from the tip of the rod; I will reel the line back on the spool with no guide from my fingers or off reel hand.
If I find the line stacking to one side of the spool or the other, I will slightly rotate the stripper guide in the direction to minimize the line stacking. I have found that for myself, even with an oscillating line guide on the casting reel, that I normally have the best result of line lay by offsetting the striipper guide to about 5 degrees in the direction of the spiral wrap direction. But, if you get perfect spool line lay with the stripper guide at the 0 degree position, go for it and wrap it.

The 2nd guide needs to have the ring of the guide as close to the blank as possible. The reason for this guide, is to simply get the line around the side of the blank without having the line touch or rub on the blank. But the closer the line is to the blank without touching the blank, the less line deflection will be noted and you will have a better and more effective guide train.

Best wishes.

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 15, 2019 11:30AM

I agree with Roger but the only difference I have is about the direction of the spiral. I believe if a person cast with their right hand then the spiral should go to the left and vise versa for a left hand caster. Also because I almost fish saltwater exclusively and there is always sand (at least a little) on the ground or deck I do not want to lay my $250-$425 baitcaster on its side but rather on the handle where it will not actually touch the ground. To me, the "revolver style" keeps the line more straight and that will translate into more distance, even if its just a couple of feet.

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 15, 2019 11:09PM

Have I not heard that revolver setups with the first guide off zero degrees (not directly on top) causes line pile-up on one side of the reel? Lance , you don't really put your rod on anything sandy, do you? Every boat I've gotten into in salt water there was a requirement to either take off the boots or dip the bottoms in the water to free them of sand. I don't do that on my freshwater boat and I've never had sand get into a reel. So I go with Roger's orientation of the guides with respect to the handle. And I don't believe there is a distance difference between the two methods. I expect a familiar comment to be made about now.

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 16, 2019 02:57PM

I start out clean in my boat but after wading and getting back in, it starts to get a little dirty. I will use baitcasting, spinning and fly fishing all in the same outing depending on the conditions. When I fly fish I lay my other rods down on the deck so I don't have to worry about the line hitting them when I make a quick direction change. I have horizontal rod holders along with the vertical ones but the horizontals are a hassle to get the rods in so I just lay them on the deck.

The reason I give for the direction (it most likely makes no difference) of the wrap is; when I make a long cast with right hand I will put my left foot forward, like I am about to throw a spear, because my strongest position is when I use my right hand to hold the rod. The arc of the cast goes over my shoulder to the inside of my body toward the left. The direction of the left wrap, in my opinion, keeps the line in the direction of the force with less resistance. Flipping or underhand its not going to matter. It has nothing to do with catching or working a bait. I will always do it this way, right hander left spiral and left hander right spiral. If the guides get damaged then it is from being stepped on because most of the bass fishermen that I know along with tournament red fishermen will lay their rods on the deck, pick up another rod off the deck then step on a rod while fighting a fish. Happens all the time. That's why you don't build rods for tournament fishermen and the rod always snapps while fighting a fish. The great thing about this hobby is that you can do it anyway you think works best and sometimes you may get lucky and be right.

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Ken Patek (---.tamp.fl.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 17, 2019 01:35PM

Here is how I do mine. I am by no means an expert and open to constructive criticism. Also, I've only done them on rigs tailored specific to bottom fishing.

First I space the guides out "normally" and static test like its a spinning rig. (guides on the bottom). Then I flip the 1st three or four closest to the reel, back on top of the blank, in line with the reel. I then set the reel at max drag, run the line through the guides, and tie off to something heavy (5 gallon bucket filled with water for example). I'll then try to lift the bucket with the rod (simulate fighting the fish) until the drag starts slipping. The line will pull/rotate the guides to a "clocking" that is natural. In other words, load the blank, secure the guides with rubber bands or zip ties, something that will allow them to move, and let the rod/line tell you how to clock them.

Wish I knew how to post video, and I'd show you how I set up my last build.

As far as what side, I've always spiraled to the left, because physics tells us we are imparting a slight torque when reeling, so spiraling to the opposite side of the crank would help neutralize it.

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 17, 2019 03:25PM

Ken Patek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is how I do mine. I am by no means an expert
> and open to constructive criticism. Also, I've
> only done them on rigs tailored specific to bottom
> fishing.
>
> First I space the guides out "normally" and static
> test like its a spinning rig. (guides on the
> bottom). Then I flip the 1st three or four
> closest to the reel, back on top of the blank, in
> line with the reel. I then set the reel at max
> drag, run the line through the guides, and tie off
> to something heavy (5 gallon bucket filled with
> water for example). I'll then try to lift the
> bucket with the rod (simulate fighting the fish)
> until the drag starts slipping. The line will
> pull/rotate the guides to a "clocking" that is
> natural. In other words, load the blank, secure
> the guides with rubber bands or zip ties,
> something that will allow them to move, and let
> the rod/line tell you how to clock them.
>
> Wish I knew how to post video, and I'd show you
> how I set up my last build.
>
> As far as what side, I've always spiraled to the
> left, because physics tells us we are imparting a
> slight torque when reeling, so spiraling to the
> opposite side of the crank would help neutralize
> it.

This is certainly not a bad way to set up a spiral wrap. Many do it this way and get great results. The idea is that the guides will rotate to the positions as preferred by the line path which should put things in a natural state.

............

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Re: Spiral Wrap questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 18, 2019 02:05AM

I have been doing this a while now and know the guide positioning for what type and action of blank I am using so I will wrap the guides close to the intended spot, put a reel on and thread the guides to a stationary device and move them into position where they do not touch the blank under load at 90 degrees and make the line the straightest it can be. You can even adjust the angle of the guide in reference to the axis of the rod and direction of the line. This is the final step before I put epoxy on the wraps. Sometimes the guide may become unwrapped while moving it so it is a good idea to know the measurement before doing this. The micro guides and the amount of them have made a huge impact on this positioning. Before with the old style of larger guides and trying to put the least you could made the line go under the blank when being bent to the 90 degree angle with the guides all placed on the top of the blank. They are still making rods like this and the guide placement suggested by the manufacturers, in many cases reflect this. Use you own derived gude placement by what you know and not what is recommended by the manufacturer, that way you can tell if they are right.

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