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Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Dennis Herold (---.dsl.atmc.net)
Date: December 12, 2019 11:35AM

Is there a norm from the the reel seat distance to the first guide

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 12, 2019 12:13PM

It will generally vary based on rod type, size, reel, line, etc. There is no one-size fits all unless we're talking about a fly rod, where a distance of 32 inches from the butt is about right on the money.

...............

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 12, 2019 01:28PM

For most of the spinning rods and casting rods that I build, I normally start at 19 to 20 inches and go from there.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 12, 2019 04:41PM

Should be talking about reel, not reel seat. End of shaft on spin, line guide on cast.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: John DeMartini (---)
Date: December 12, 2019 06:50PM

General guide

Fly rods.....28 to 35 inches

Spin rods..18 to 25 inches

Bait cast...18 to 25
John

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Tom Wewerka (---.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 12, 2019 08:51PM

I have found that 19 inches is my target for spin and bait cast rods. It depends somewhat on the length too.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 13, 2019 07:11AM

Tom, can you elaborate on why the length figures in?

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 13, 2019 01:42PM

Michael,
The length figures in - simply due to the characteristics of the rod blank.

For example, if you have a 6 foot bait casting rod, you have about a 2 1/2 foot section of the butt of the rod, that is essentially non bending and thus, need no guides on that section of blank.


But, if you have a 12 foot salmon rod, you have about a 4 foot section of essentially non bending rod, and thus need no guides on that section of blank.

So, in the case of the 6 foot casting rod, the 19 inch length from reel face to stripper guide is right on. But, in the case of a stiffer 12 foot salmon rod, one might have a distance of 30 inches from the face of the reel to the stripper and have a wonderful and perfect rod and guide train.

Bottom line - normally , if the blank does not bend, then there is little need for a guide on that section of blank.

Take care

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Dennis Herold (---.dsl.atmc.net)
Date: December 13, 2019 01:54PM

My distance from reel seat to Stripper is 18". And the rod is a 7'6" Spinning holpfuly this is good. Thanks for your feedback.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 13, 2019 06:08PM

Dennis, from the seat or the reel? Seat doesn't define it since the position of the reel on all seats is not the same. It's the tip of the shaft (I do it in the out position, but out or in is just a half inch difference).

Roger, I see your logic, but having line with no guide for 30 or more inches seems like wind could affect the cast, if not simply line running loose and uncontrolled. I asked because I have heard two very expert rodbuilders speak on this issue, one saying length has no effect and the other that it does. I'm the eternal skeptic with a very active @#$%& detector. Not that I'm saying you're giving @#$%&, but when it detects direct contradictions, it goes off.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: December 13, 2019 06:35PM

I always measure from the front of the reel to the stripper/butt guide. The position of the reel can vary depending on whether the reel seat is in the up locking or down locking position, can make a difference of a few inches. For a low profile casting reel the first guide is usually 18 to 21” in front of the reel. For a spinning rod this distance can vary depending on the size of the reel, the bigger the reel the further out the first guide is placed.the higher the guide frame needs to be. Are you inquiring about a spinning rod or a casting rod.? How long is the rod, how large is the reel and what type and size line?
Norm

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Gary Kilmartin (135.26.203.---)
Date: December 13, 2019 08:32PM

I remember reading a short article in Rodmaker, penned , I believe, by Mr Kirkman, deling with this very subject. I do not have my stock of magazines on hand right now, so I can’t look it up.

This article suggested a distance for the stripper of 14-16” from the reel face, for casting rods. Don’t remember exactly, but I seem to recall the 14-16” spacing was a starting point to be used with rods ranging from 6’ to 7 1/2’. Not sure about that at all. I have been experimenting with this, and have two rods, built of personal use, using this spacing. A 6’8” rod using 14” and a 7’2” rod using 16”.Both cast very well. One with mono line and one with fluoro. Can’t really compare the two to draw any conclusion about the difference between 14” and 16”. Different rod lengths, different reels, different line.

While experimenting, I had another thought about line path. With the stripper in that close range, the height of the reel may have as much to do as overall rod length. With a large round reel, the line path from reel to the second guide could easily have a bend at the stripper. Which would suggest a taller guide would be of benefit. I have not had time to experiment with this idea. The only thing I’ve done, at this point is to measure the height of line guide on each of my reels. Just to have a data point for comparison. All of my casting reels are Daiwa, except for one Abu Record 50. The last one is a large round reel; the largest reel in my collection. The smallest reels are Alphas and PX 68s. There’s quite a difference in line guide height between the smallest Daiwas and the largest Abu. This suggests a taller stripper guide, sized and placed to remove the bend in the line path. This can’t possibly be a one size fits all solution.

Of course if we throw spiral wrapping into the mix, the geometry changes completely, and maybe renders the whole point moot.

Am I over-thinking this? Again?

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 13, 2019 11:14PM

Gary,
I may be a bit different from other builders, but I really do not build a rod for a specific reel.
The reason is simple. I have generally found that a typical rod is used for many many years - in general.
But, over time and due to changes, often many many different reels are used on the same rod.

As a result, I tend to build rods set up for the tallest reel that I will use for a given rod. On any given day, I might have two or three different reels on the same rod.

I expect that I am different from a lot of fisherperson's in that respect but I simply prefer to swap an entire reel if I happen to have a need for a different line, or a different technique but want to stay with the same rod.

To each his own.

Take care

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 14, 2019 07:11AM

Gary, casting guide first guide height is a factor, which is why Fuji came out with the RV.and includes a 10mm double foot guide in their recommendations-10 mm to get the right height. You're not over-thinking it.

Roger, I've been thinking about your logic on longer rods and wonder what the length of the unbending section of the rod can have to do with it since when the cast is taking place the rod is essentially straight. So all rods have the same geometry regardless of length.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: December 14, 2019 10:34AM

Dennis: There is evidently ZERO available published information for casting distance in feet and inches for different rod builds with different guides/guide placements or different rod blanks of different rod lengths using different reels or different lines, so your choice of who to believe is as good as anyone else's.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 14, 2019 11:43AM

Publishing doesn't add credibility. Think internet. The judgments of numerous expert, experienced, rodbuilders do have credibility, even if numbers are not given. But if it takes numbers to have credibility, and if people will pay for them, it sounds like a good business opportunity here.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 14, 2019 05:46PM

Michael,
You are right about casting distance not being affected by the distance of the stripper from the face of the reel.

However, the unbending portion of the rod IS affected by fighting a fish and bringing it to the boat.

As long as the portion of the rod is largely unbent when fighting a fish and bringing it to the boat means that you do NOT need a guide in that location to insure that you properly load the blank.

Conversely from the stripper on, - as the guides are placed on bent and loaded parts of the blank, a guide is necessary to keep the line off of the blank and to insure that the rod blank is properly loaded.

Best wishes.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: December 14, 2019 09:58PM

Michael: "Publishing" has been around since clay tablets and pyramids. Somehow we have muddled through disinformation and have flown to the moon. I suspect if any particular guides or guide spacing made a significant difference in casting distance or accuracy the "Acme Super Guide Company" would waste no time in advertising the superiority of their product by publishing its numbers.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Michael Danek (50.124.249.---)
Date: December 15, 2019 08:26AM

Thanks, Roger.

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Re: Reel seat distance to first guide
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: December 15, 2019 09:42AM

Dennis,
Don't forget the other side of the blank while you're at it, if the tip isn't bending under any initial load to where the line touches the blank, it doesn't need a guide till it does. When under full load all rods have a tip pointing straight toward the load, that section of the tip doesn't need a guide either. So at different loads you have to check your work to ensure the guides are where they need to be to protect the blank.

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