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Apologies from Elrod (RE: locking wrap)
Posted by: Elrod (150.199.191.---)
Date: November 23, 2001 10:21AM

It has come to my attention that a post I had made concerning a locking wrap, offended someone, as they lay claim to that technique. The request was to make a public apology so here is the emails that took place, hence my public apology:

Email From Rich Forhan:
In your 11-14-01 Elrod lock wrap post - you state you haven't seen this anywhere - not true, Tom let the cat out of the bag when he said "It involves encircling the guide ring leg with thread in such a way as to make it impossible for the guide to come loose, unless you actually break the thread."
You saw that post and worked on the idea until you came up with something. You state "I will claim it until otherwise notified." You have been notified - the Forhan locking wrap is to be published in RodmMaker for ALL to see and benefit from.
Any mention I see of the "Elrod lock wrap" and I will expose it as
plagiarism - "to take ideas from another and offer them as one's own"
I'm not too happy about what you did. Give a public apology and I'll forget the whole thing - but there can NEVER be an Elrod lock wrap - that would only encourage others to plagiarize!
Rich Forhan

Elrod's Response:

Mr Forhan,
My apologies. If you would read the original post, TWICE in there I stated that if someone is already doing this or developed this I can't claim a thing.
"Again, if someone has already developed this, I take no credit"
Secondly, Tom K. stated in the reply that MANY folks are already doing this, so at that point, I relequished any honors. I am sorry you feel so threatened, the tone of my post ought to have revealed that I had no intent of infringement(or plagarism).
I am being honest when I "don't remember seeing it anywhere", wether subconsciously I had Tom's post placed in the back of my head and that sparked the thought, I do not know. Plus, all it said was "encircling the guide", that leaves alot to the imagination.
I am an honest person, one of character and I will do whatever it takes to make it right. I just want you to understand that I wasn't plagerizing. That is my biggest concern. Having something named after me has no importance whatsoever, what is important is that people know I am a person of integrity. So forgive me for offending you with my post. Nothing was out of ill intent or deceitfulness.
I hope by posting this on the board this will suffice as a public apology.
Likewise if someone emails me concerning the "Elrod Lock" I will correct them and refer them to you.
Elrod (Jon)

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Locking wraps
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: November 23, 2001 11:07AM

There have been many variations on locking wraps. The one Elrod mentioned was posted, I believe, before I mentioned that Rich's wrap would be in our next issue. I am satisfied that Elrod stumbled upon his method without knowledge of any other. The wrap in the next issue will be labeled as the "Forhan Locking Wrap". To my knowledge he claimed it first. Did he invent it? Yes. Have others also invented it at earlier or later times? Possibly.

Buddy Owens, a good friend and great rod builder, has been doing something similar to this for many years. He uses more of a "figure 8" in his wrap sequence, but it achieves much the same thing.

We all have to be careful when stating that we have discovered or invented anything. My great, great grandfather held the patent on the wooden fishing float. It was granted just before 1900. Did he invent the wooden fishing float? I have no idea. He just made it to the patent office first.

.................

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Re: Apologies from Elrod (RE: locking wrap)
Posted by: shaun (---.pngts.com)
Date: November 23, 2001 12:09PM

Thank you Mr. French ! If it was closer to April Fools this would have made more sense.

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B. in capital letters
Posted by: Mike Bolt (---.50.54.205.mhub.grid.net)
Date: November 23, 2001 02:08PM

"You have been notified - the Forhan locking wrap is to be published in RodmMaker for ALL to see and benefit from.
Any mention I see of the "Elrod lock wrap" and I will expose it as
plagiarism - "to take ideas from another and offer them as one's own"
I'm not too happy about what you did. Give a public apology and I'll forget the whole thing - but there can NEVER be an Elrod lock wrap - that would only encourage others to plagiarize!
Rich Forhan"

ELROD, you don 't have a hair on your rear end if you don't retract your apology! Call his hand on it! Public apology my arse. Tell you what you do, do one little thing different when the article comes out and THEN call it the Improved Elrod Lock Wrap.

This goes back to the whole mess with the developed the spiral wrap also. Some folks need to get a grip on reality.

You tell em French!

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In fairness
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: November 23, 2001 02:56PM

In fairness to Rich Forhan, his version of the locking wrap is more than just adding threads beyond the guide foot/leg. It entails several circular wraps around the guide leg itself and is the most secure of all the locking wrap versions I have seen. Rich developed this on his own, even though we may find later than someone else had done it at some previous point. Thus he is free to call it whatever he wishes. RodMaker will run the article and photo "how-to" as the "Forhan Locking Wrap".

Unless I am mistaken, Elrod's post on hisown version was made before I had announced the basics of Rich's wrap. Again, I may be mistaken. In that event, Elrod just stumbled upon his own version, which happened to be similar to Rich's. Good rod builders often develop similar solutions to similar problems, even without the knowledge of what their fellow rod builders are doing. I would assume that is what happened in this case.

When RodMaker ran the story on how to do feather inlays, I got about 17 or 18 letters and calls from individuals claiming to be the inventor of the technique, or to know the inventor. I have no doubt that each one did invent the technique, independant of the others. But who was first? I did trace one feather inlay method back to the 1920's but would still not call the person who developed that one the inventor. There's just no way to know. This is such a grey area that I really don't wish to get involved in it. (I am sure after the next issue of RodMaker is out I will get a dozen people claiming to be the inventor of this particular "locking wrap". I can't wait for the deluge of angry of callers and writers!)

Let's not let this discussion degenerate into a heated argument or demands made upon anyone. This board is better than that. I do wish it had been handled in a different matter but there is little to be done about it now other than to put the issue to rest.

.............

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Re: In fairness
Posted by: Rich Forhan (---.stkn.dial.netzero.com)
Date: November 23, 2001 09:56PM

Elrod - apology accepted.

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Not at all new
Posted by: Russell (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: November 26, 2001 08:05PM

When single foot guides first came out maybe 25 years ago they were not really suited to heavier rods. At least what we had weren't. We wanted to use them on the tips as tip-tops because someone told us it would make the rod more sensitive because you wouldn't have the glue in there. So we would take casting type guides and cut one foot off. This was really easy on the first guides to have stamped frames instead of pieced together ones. But the one foot left was very short. So we would wrap them and then go competely around the foot where it went up to the guide. You could do this 3 or 4 times and then around and tie off and it held very well. I would think this is similar. I could show you 40 rods made this way so it can't be very new.

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Re: Not at all new
Posted by: Capt. Bill Hobbs (---.tampabay.rr.com)
Date: November 26, 2001 09:28PM

I have been buiding rods for about seven years now and I have been fishing for over forty years and I have never heard anybody claim a style of casting a rod or trolling a rod or a style of fly fishing or any thing of that nature only in rod building somebody has to claim it is theirs. I have fished with the best, these old timers pass on the secrets to sucsessful fishing I am privledged to know the best and I hope I can do the same with the masters of rod building. I had the privledge to meet Don Morton he even said the same thing in the last Rodcrafters seminar you masters are getting old you must pass it on. I am also very lucky that John Britt lives only a couple miles from me he has helped me so many times I am privledged just to be in his home.Don't dwell on who invented it but pass it on so rod crafting can live on. Elrod you done good and keep at it you may be one of those old timers that is known as the best in rod crafters.

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Re: Not at all new
Posted by: Greg Marshall (---.bix.bellsouth.net)
Date: November 27, 2001 10:33PM

If the U.S. patent office has your name on it, it yours. If not fughettaboutit!!!!!!

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