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Pages: 12Next
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Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: October 30, 2019 06:26PM

Hello all!
I have been trying my hand at Carbon fiber grip making.
1. Measure, cut, form foam core - NO PROBLEM
2. Wet out foam core, put on the carbon sleeve, wet out - NO PROBLEM
3. Add additional coats of the same epoxy (aeromarine #300 with aeromarine #21 hardener - BIG PROBLEM!!!

When I add additional coats I start getting what I will call - craters. I don’t touch the grip after the carbon has been slid on and tightened down.i apply thin coats of epoxy. I stooped using any heat as I thought that might be the culprit - if wasn’t! After the epoxy is applied they are under a drying tent.
I don’t do anything different than when I’m applying epoxy to my thread wraps.
Anyone else have these issues or give recommendations how to stop this from happening?
I have watched the video everyone recommended here as well as read the article in Rodmaker Magazine.
I will post a picture if someone will give brief instructions and tell me how to attach the link right here.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

HOOD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2019 07:25PM by Jon Hood.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 30, 2019 07:50PM

The photo is a bit hard to see but from what I can surmise, you have applied additional sealer coat/s of epoxy and are in the sanding process to get things smooth. If this is the case, the shiny areas are low spots. Keep sanding until everything is the same dull, sanded surface. If you can't do this without sanding into the carbon skin itself, apply another coat of epoxy and keep on like you have been. I can generally do this with just one coat beyond the wetting out process.

And whatever you do - do NOT wipe the grip with a solvent between applications of epoxy.

.................

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: October 30, 2019 07:58PM

Tom,
You are correct - I tried sanding them out but was getting to close for comfort to the carbon. I would like to know why you think the craters are there to start with. This grip is not a MUST save as I wasn’t happy with the straightness of my carbon fiber. With that said - I sanded, then added a thin coat of color preserver and will let it dry before adding the next coat of epoxy.
Again, what could I have done to have the craters to start with?

Thanks,

Jon Hood

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: October 30, 2019 09:00PM

Why the color preserver? Never used it myself on carbon fiber grips or heard of anyone else doing it.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 30, 2019 09:55PM

The craters (shiny areas), from what I can see, are just low areas. Nothing at all unusual about that.

To speed up the process, use a thick application instead of multiple thin ones. You're going to be sanding most of the epoxy off anyway.

............

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: October 30, 2019 11:42PM

Sanding the carbon is ok as long as you don't go through.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: October 30, 2019 11:42PM

Sanding the carbon is ok as long as you don't go through.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: October 31, 2019 04:59AM

The reason behind the color preserver (in my mind) was using it almost like a bonding agent ( in the event I had contamination ) especially in the lower areas (craters). Just tried something different. Like you said Spencer - I haven’t heard of anyone doing it either. I will be adding another coat this afternoon and will do as Tom recommended. I will let the epoxy rest long enough to thicken a bit and try a heavier coat.
On the plus side - I figured out how to post and link the pictures ! Now I will get better at the picture TAKING ! LOL.

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: October 31, 2019 08:16AM

It's okay to sand into the carbon by a bit. Won't hurt anything. But you don't want to sand through it into the core - that's the danger. (Don't sand fiberglass sleeves - they will leave fuzz.)

Once you post photos to the photo page, all you have to do is copy the link (URL) at the top of the page when your photo is open and then copy and paste it here.

.............

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: October 31, 2019 04:29PM

Jon,
I am unfamiliar with Aeromarine epoxy but can only assume it is a structural epoxy (~4-to-1 mix ratio) rather than the typical rod building epoxies (~1-to-1 mix ratio). If not sealed from the environment while curing, structural epoxies are very susceptible if not prone to developing amine-blush on the surface. Amine-blush is recognized as a waxy, tacky film and it will seriously impede if not prohibit application of additional coats of epoxy. While a-m can be removed with warm, soapy water, even warm water by itself if worried about contaminating the surface (further), most rodbuilders likely employ a special shrink tubing to compress the CF and evacuate as much excess resin as possible; this also provides a seal for the environment as well. Even spiral wrapping strips of thin plastic will produce the same three results. I cannot explain why typical rod building epoxies rarely experience a-m, but there is obviously something different in their chemistry as compared to the structural types.
While this may or may not be the root of your problem, it certainly could be and now you know. However, after looking at your photo, the problem does not appear to be too bad; typically, a-m will affect the entire surface. May I suggest you scuff the surface including the low spots with a ScotchBrite pad and apply a relatively heavy coat of epoxy as Tom K suggested.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!!

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: October 31, 2019 05:48PM

Mark,
The epoxy I am using is aeromarine 300 with aeromarine non blushing cycloaliphatic epoxy hardener 21.
The reason my photo looks foggy is that it has been sanded with the shiny spots being the low areas. I am about to apply another coat of epoxy as we speak! I will see how it works!

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: October 31, 2019 06:41PM

Wow! It got worse gentlemen! I tried the thicker coat but the epoxy started repelling from A LOT of spots - again the phot is not great but I think you can get the jest of the problem! I would really like to know what the heck is going on ! 7 years building and never this problem! Ask any question you can think of [www.rodbuilding.org]

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 31, 2019 11:39PM

Jon,
Just stop what you are doing.

Take some foam and lay it out.
Then lay on some glass - just like you are making a grip.

Put on your layers of epoxy and see how it goes.

Rather than spending time on a grip, just do some testing on flat foam to get your process under control . When you get repeatable results, go for the real thing.

It sounds like your problem is contamination or you are using two or more different products that are not compatible.

I expect that you will identify the problem pretty quickly.

-------
Again, cleanliness. Once you start - do not put any solvent of any sort on the object.

Best wishes.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dyn6.twc.com)
Date: November 01, 2019 11:35AM

Hello Jon.

Did you make your foam in a mold?

If you did, did you use a release agent?

Did you use a lathe & wood working tools to shape the foam?

If you did, what do you put on your tools for anti-corrosion?

Did you use any cutting implements to cut your foam or carbon fiber.

If you did, what do you put on your cutting implements for anti-corrosion?

Do you have the grip on a mandrel?

Did you use a release agent on the mandrel
.
If so what kind of release agent?


Good Luck & let us know what you find.
Thank You


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: November 01, 2019 12:05PM

Bob,
Foam core purchased from Mudhole

So no form release

Only NEW sandpaper to shape the foam core

No wood tools

No anti corrosion used

Foam core is on a mandrel

No release agent used

Used new nitrile gloves to tighten up wetted out carbon to foam core
Used new brush to apply epoxy
Used new mixing cup to mix epoxy with epoxy mixer
Everything seems to work and look fine until I start adding coats of epoxy to achieve a little depth for aesthetics

Any other thoughts?

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.dyn6.twc.com)
Date: November 01, 2019 12:37PM

Hello Jon.

There has to be some kind of contamination or as Roger says a chemical miss match of some sort.

Let us know what you find out.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Jon Hood (---)
Date: November 01, 2019 02:08PM

I will Bob,
But not sure what it could be - using the same epoxy through the process. I am going to sand it out again closer to the Carbon fiber and run at it again!

Jon Hood

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 01, 2019 08:19PM

Have you used this epoxy in the past for multiple coats without problems?

Is there by chance anything in the air that is contaminating the cured coats?

Are you wiping the sanded grip with anything?

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: November 01, 2019 08:44PM

to add to Phils list..do you keep your used and new sandpaper stored together close to each other..maybe the used contaminating the new paper?

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Re: Carbon fiber grip PROBLEMS!
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: November 02, 2019 08:43AM

some sand papers are treated with silicone to keep dust from sticking to paper.
could be your problem

I would sand back close to carbon,
Then take and thoroughly clean with Dawn dish soap using green abrasive scotch bright cleaning pad
rinse off
wipe dry clean with coffee filters. (Food Line brand does the best with out leaving lint behind)

allow to dry completely before re-coating

unless it is an epoxy problem that will solve your challenge

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