hi all. as i'm a complete beginner on rodbuilding i beg you not to be very hard on me

i just bought a zziplex bullet blank 4,12 m long (two unequal sections) that i intend to use with a daiwa reel with 70 mm width spools filled with .25 mm mono and .26-.57 mono shock leader. should i use the ngc for guide spacing or static guide placement ? and which guide size ?

thank you

A 13+ foot Zippy with approx 12 pound test mono and a 15 -25 pound leader i see . The reel i use on my surf rods have a spool diameter of 76 mm and i used the Fuji KR double foot to start with - RV 25, RV 16, 10 M to a size 5 KB as the choker and a few size 5 KT's out to the tip and it's an incredible performing surf rod .

If you're set on sticking with relatively light mono as your line of choice ( I would recommend braid for ultimate distance) but if mono is what you will be using with a spool diameter of 70 mm there is no need to use any guide larger than a 30 and i would recommend a 25 if the height was appropriate , Fuji doesn't offer a KW 25 with the height needed so if going with the KW frame the KW 30 is the most popular option in this scenario .

I have surf rods set up that utilize KR concept single foot's starting with a KL25H to a 10H (I prefer the 10H over the 12H ) to a 5.5 choke etc... many believe those KR single foots are not appropriate to use as surf rod guides but i strongly disagree. You only want to use guide sizes NO LARGER than absolutely necessary and a lot of test casting is required to find the ultimate combination.

Line choice , type and diameter is the # 1 determining factor and right behind that is reel specs , spool diameter etc when it comes to surf spinning outfits .


What you DO NOT want is a layout that wastes a lot of the rods performance potential and zaps it's energy , this occurs when you go with guides that are overly large for the line you're fishing with, (This is extremely common by the way ) because not only do you add unnecessary weight by choosing larger rings and frame sizes you're also wasting kinetic energy by allowing the line to move around too much inside the ring instead of forcing and directing it forward with minimal energy loss.

With 12 pound test mono and braid 20 pounds and under choose guides with appropriate height BUT with smaller ring sizes , your reel with a 70 mm spool diameter with 12 pound test mono won't need a guide over a 25 size ring and a 30 size would be the absolute largest i would ever deem acceptable.

Your Zippy with that long length should have a layout similar to the below :

First two would be my preference.

* 25, 16,10,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6

* 25, 16, 12, 7,7,7,7 ,7,7 7, 7

If a 25 is not doable the below would work and would be acceptable for heavier lines also .

* 30,20,12,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,


Now don't get confused with the NGC, KR concept and static load testing , when talking about static load testing that is mostly referring to running guide placement after the reduction guide part of the layout is already completed . Work on getting the reduction guide placement down and performing it's best before deciding where the best possible location for your runners should be .

A solid reduction train layout will show a bullseye pattern when you sight down from your first reduction guide into your choke guide , each ring should fall inside the previous . A quick way to determine appropriate guide heights is to follow the table technique method where your rod blank will cross the table indicating a choke guide location that is a good place to put it to start testing .


BEFORE YOU START make sure you have your reel seat location already determined with reel attached .

thanks Herb..lots of hard earned knowledge there.

Herb already said everything but i just want to ad the Microwave guides. I have them in almost all my surf rods and they really work well.

Se por acaso fores Português se quiseres entra em contacto comigo para ver se te posso ajudar.

herb canter, thank you very much for all the information. much grateful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2019 08:14AM by Mário Santos.

Nuno Paulino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herb already said everything but i just want to ad
> the Microwave guides. I have them in almost all my
> surf rods and they really work well.
>
> Se por acaso fores Português se quiseres entra em
> contacto comigo para ver se te posso ajudar.

sim, sou português. muito obrigado pela oferta de ajuda. já tinha conhecimento da tua atividade na 7evenrods, e até pensei em pedir-te para me montares a cana, mas um grande amigo meu que também as monta, ao saber que tinha encomendado o blank, disse-me logo que queria montá-lo para mim, e como gosto do trabalho dele, aceitei
muito obrigado mais uma vez
os meus melhores cumprimentos

Só por curiosidade, que tipo de carreto vais usar com esse blank? A Bullet é um animal de lançamento que normalmente é usado com carretos de casting.

vou usar um daiwa basia qdx com bobines de origem de 66 mm e bobines mv de 70 mm
a bullet que encomendei é a hi-flex gt (glass tip). desculpe o que escrevi entre parênteses...sabe tudo isto concerteza muito melhor que eu. escolhi-a para poder lançar em otg com chumbadas de 170-180 gr+isco, com linha 0,25 no carreto+chicote cónico, quando é preciso procurar o peixe mais fora, e com chumbadas mais leves não consigo parar a pesca, a menos que me desloque atrás dela até ela parar, o que nem sempre é possível

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First two would be my preference.
>
> * 25, 16,10,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6
>
> * 25, 16, 12, 7,7,7,7 ,7,7 7, 7
>
> If a 25 is not doable the below would work and
> would be acceptable for heavier lines also .
>
> * 30,20,12,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,8,

why 8 running guides on the first two and 9 on the third ? was it to be 8 too ?

When i list guides whether it be reduction or running it's never a " Set in stone" type of thing , there is no way for me to tell how many runners a 13 + foot blank will require , the number of running guides i listed is just a ballpark figure and meant to give you more of the impression of staying with the same size more so than how many will be needed. Only way to find out specific numbers and best location for them is by static testing the blank after you get your reduction and choke guide positioned in the appropriate areas to start testing and tweaking . Each individual blank will be different .

There is no type of blank where a set amount of running guides must be adhered to , it's all based on the builders preferences and what the blanks inherent bending characteristics reveal when a load is applied to it which will determine the best location and how many to choose.

Many guys i know have the same 11 foot surf blank i have but use a total of 7 guides including runners , i use 9 total guides , just an example of different builds and user preferences .

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When i list guides whether it be reduction or
> running it's never a " Set in stone" type of thing
> , there is no way for me to tell how many runners
> a 13 + foot blank will require , the number of
> running guides i listed is just a ballpark figure
> and meant to give you more of the impression of
> staying with the same size more so than how many
> will be needed. Only way to find out specific
> numbers and best location for them is by static
> testing the blank after you get your reduction and
> choke guide positioned in the appropriate areas to
> start testing and tweaking . Each individual
> blank will be different .
>
> There is no type of blank where a set amount of
> running guides must be adhered to , it's all based
> on the builders preferences and what the blanks
> inherent bending characteristics reveal when a
> load is applied to it which will determine the
> best location and how many to choose.
>
> Many guys i know have the same 11 foot surf blank
> i have but use a total of 7 guides including
> runners , i use 9 total guides , just an example
> of different builds and user preferences .

understood. thanks once more

just something more...after space guiding the rod according to the ngc system i ended up with two possibilities for the reduction train:

1: only 2 guides with a 25 mm stripper at 120 cm from the spool

2: 3 guides with a 30 mm stripper at 81 cm from the spool

i intend to test cast both ways, yet i would like to know yours opinions in advance about which one will work better

thank you



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2019 08:47AM by Mário Santos.