Well. I built my dream steelhead rod,it fished phenominal on a recent trip,caught a bunch of fish and I was super stoked until I was casting and felt the butt cap come loose. I looked and the epoxy was in there but it appears the arbor failed(white masking tape). The I noticed the handle was loose. The foam arbor to the reel seat closest seemed to be well glued to the handle tube,but it slipped off the blank. I am going to remove the handle from the blank and attempt to re-glue everything up. I thought I had measured up the u40 rod bond in pretty equal parts and mixed them well before applying. The epoxy seems rubbery,but dry. A little flaky. The butt cap was the anodized alps one and the grip,a graphite woven tube(identical to the black widow handles from Edge Rods made by North Fork Composites). Does U40 have a shelf life? Do I need to be more dilligent in measuring the 2 parts? I am thinking of using a foam arbor for the butt cap just like I did the handle. I hope I explained this well enough. Thanks all for the endless wealth of information.

Prep is the key. Check the online library here for information on proper surface preparation. Epoxy can't bond surfaces that it can't stick to.

Yes you can use a "foam" arbor to mount the butt cap on and it will be better than using masking tape.

..............

Thank you Tom

Sounds like you may not have used enough epoxy with all the pieces being loose.

Robert,
I am guessing that you did not mix the epoxy enough.

After insuring that your parts a and b are exactly equal, slowly mix the epoxy very completely. Wipe the mixing stick off on the edge of the mixing container frequently, and wipe down the side of the mixing container frequently to be sure that every bit of the epoxy has been mixed.

Using a clock, mix for at least 3 minutes or 180 seconds - at least.

I use foam arbors as well as masking tape arbors and have never had a failure with either. When I use a masking tape arbor, I make the arbor by wrapping rows of masking tape on the blank for the correct outside diameter. Then, I leave a bout 1/32 inch to 1/16th inch space between the first row of masking tape and the next row.
By having these small gaps in the rows of tape, you are creating a full epoxy connection from the blank itself to the rod grip and or reel seat.

If the epoxy is rubbery, it is very likely that the epoxy was not mixed enough and completely. (This assumes that the a and b portions were exactly equal before starting to mix.

Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2019 06:26PM by roger wilson.

I'm not saying for sure you did something wrong, but I suspect you did. Here's why. I use Rod Bond for every handle I have ever made from fly rods (mostly) to a few spinning rods. In 10 years, not one failure. Not even a hint of failure. I think the masking tape is your problem. It just isn't a good substrate. Drywall adhesive tape is way better because the epoxy can penetrate the open matrix of it.

Rod Bond is very forgiving. I'm not careful about the ratios and it still sets up perfectly. And just for the record, I always use foam arbors and occasionally use drywall tape to make up gaps. I never ever (and never would) use masking tape.

So if it's your "dream" rod, it's worth fixing perfectly. Good luck and don't use masking tape.

Drew

Lol thanks Drew. Yeah I can fix it. I will re-do the epoxy . I prepped the blank well enough and I believe I made the epoxy parts equal so I will be sure to mix mix mix! Also I am going with the foam arbors.

Robert

Robert,
Also, as Phil pointed out, don't be shy with the amount of epoxy you use for the joints.

Be safe

It's not really how much epoxy you use - but rather where you put it that counts. Assuming your parts fit well enough (no looseness or sloppy fit) you only need a thin application on the actual mating surfaces. Any epoxy you gob on or into open spaces is just adding weight, not strength nor further adhesive power.

...........

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robert,

, I make the arbor by
> wrapping rows of epoxy on the blank for the
> correct outside diameter.

How do you wrap rows of epoxy around the blank ????
Do you let it set up like taffy then apply? My inquiring mind needs to know.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Drew's response is the most logical and the use of masking tape is not best choice.

I make my arbors from pine or poplar dowels. I make up 1 inch lengths and stack and space them as needed.

My recommendation is:

1) Select a durable material for the arbor
2)Test fit all parts to see if they align properly and have a snug fit.
3) Make sure the parts are dirt and oil free before applying the adhesive.
4) Apply a thin coat of adhesive to all mating parts.
5) Do not use the rod until the adhesive is fully cured.

There are probably more do's and don'ts, but this will get you a good build.
Have fun

John

Fred Yarmolowicz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> roger wilson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Robert,
>
> , I make the arbor by
> > wrapping rows of epoxy on the blank for the
> > correct outside diameter.
>
> How do you wrap rows of epoxy around the blank
> ????
> Do you let it set up like taffy then apply? My
> inquiring mind needs to know.

Pretty sure thats a typo .

Ron,
Yes, A typo.
I typed epoxy when it should have been masking tape.

The masking tape provides the spacing and then the epoxy which is coating the tape and also going down between the rows of epoxy to adhere to the blank on the bottom and the grip or reel seat on the outside surface.

In a word - it words - no failures of any kind over many many rods built.

Take care

I was only able to slide the handle tube down about 8". I am going to scuff the blank and re-epoxy . The foam arbors seem to be adhering to the tube,and I remember scuffing the blank well,so I think I messed up on the epoxy ratio. I will update my results .Thank you all,this board is the best!

Robert

roger wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ron
>
> In a word - it words - no failures of any kind
> over many many rods built.
>
> What does this mean ? In a word it words? I’m really confused now.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Epoxy shouldn't be used for building bushings - pouring epoxy in-between tape bushings simply adds weight. The better avenue is to craft good fitting, lightweight bushings from brick foam or urethane (quicker than winding tape) and apply a thin but complete application of epoxy to the mating surfaces.

Everything works, until it doesn't.

............

This is how we do it.

[flexcoat.com]

Flex Coat Company
Professional Rod Building Supplies
www.flexcoat.com

Ok so I re-prepped the blank where I could,to where it was water break free. I commandeered a spoon from the kitchen drawer(I'm not married so I can do this) and measured precisely the same amount of rod bond,mixed thoroughly for 3 minutes,scraping the sides of the mixing cup,and made sure I put enough epoxy on there before I slid the handle back up to the reel seat and trim ring. I should be good! The cap is next and I will keep my fingers crossed that it holds up for years to come! Thanks all for the valuable lessons which have greatly shortened my learning curve. I will be taking much more care from now in,taking my time,and doing things according to what works.

Robert