I added my first application of epoxy to my butt wrap last night. As the usual case with me, I have some high spots in the finish due to areas where the thread is higher than other areas. Previously, I just let it go as it worked fine just had a 'wobbly' look to the finish. This time around I want to try to make the finish as glass-like as possible.

What would be the best way to make sure that the finish is level the whole way?

Should I scuff the high spots and apply a new coat of epoxy to just the scuffed spots? Apply to whole area after scuffing?

I don't have a high-speed dryer so using the wet sand paper approach at speed is not possible. Could I possibly use a wet -sand without the need for high-speed rotation?

Like I said above, I haven't taken the finish this far so Im not real sure what the best approach is.

Your post is one of the most asked questions in rod building forum history , almost as popular as the " Whats the best rod" posts . The archives have endless info on this topic that all of us rely on at some point .

[www.rodbuilding.org]

The search has a lot of good advice. Unfortunately there is advice that is not recommended by experts, also. What works for some doesn't work for others, probably because of different conditions or details left out.
How to tell the difference? Here is an article from the library by one of the best builders.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

It does not address the high thread issue, however. First, why is there high thread?

Having different levels is not unusual when dealing with a trim wrap, a wrapped hook keeper, then bare blank, then a decal, then a trim wrap. To get level epoxy over all that I rely on multiple coats of lite build epoxy. I only sand if I've really screwed up and got waves.

I don't know why one would wet sand. I've always just used sandpaper then a tack cloth lightly over the surface, or probably better, blow it clean. Most agree that no fluid of any kind should be used to
"clean" wraps before finishing.

I expect you're going to get some detailed responses, and hope they help.

I'll assume you are talking about decorative cross wraps - open wraps where you have thread and then bare blank. Yes the thread will be higher than the blank and so, too, will the finish. About all you can do in that instance is to keep applying finish until you have enough depth to sand everything flat, and then do a final recoat over everything.

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You can wet sand without needing high speed , i have on wavy epoxy issues ( I don't add any decorative stuff to my rods so no experience with butt wraps ) but i have sanded down guide wraps that came out wavy when i first started rod building and it worked great but you got to be so ridiculously careful . It's very difficult to know how much finish you can remove when sanding because it's very easy to nick the thread underneath if not extremely careful.

It's for that reason Tom recommended building up the epoxy then sanding to a level surface.

Ken,
There should be no need to sand nor any benefit; quite the contrary as it is extremely difficult to remove every speck of sanding residue and if you sand into the threads you will have a really ugly mess! Attempting to achieve an absolutely, perfectly level surface over the entire butt wrap is difficult, even for the veterans. I am very picky (to say the least) and my longer wrap finishes are quite nice and more than acceptable, but they are not absolutely 100% flawless when sighting down the length on a shallow angle.
As suggested, read the wealth of information in the related articles in the archives. I will offer what has worked the best for me.
First off and especially in your case, use a low viscosity, regular or lite build finish. The thinner viscosity offerings flow out and self-level better, release bubbles easier and generally afford a longer pot life. Yes, 1 or 2 extra coats may be required but the end product will be nicer. The most difficult aspect to learn of applying finish is applying enough to allow it to self-level without applying too much to cause sagging and footballs. I believe it is easier to remove some if too much rather than the inverse. Apparently, you only have a drying motor and, in your case, a faster one (18 RPM) will be better than the slower (9 RPM) units. The reasoning behind this is getting the epoxy on the rod as quickly and evenly as possible before it begins to thicken and set; it is very nice to be able to apply finish at 50-60 RPM. In your case with such a large/long wrap, you may want to consider purchasing a quality, wide brush, even 1/2in, to get the material on the rod quickly. Consider applying the finish at the coolest part of the day as well (early AM). Be conscious but not overly concerned with applying the finish evenly as the rod rotates on your dryer. Masking off the ends is usually required. After coating the entire butt wrap while still rotating, very very lightly use the brush in lengthwise strokes, back and forth to even out circumferential high and low spots in the finish. Then, stop messing with the epoxy, sit back and allow the epoxy to level itself out before it starts to thicken and set. The self-leveling qualities of all these finishes can produce extremely smooth finishes even when applied over less than desirable previous coats. Case-in-point; after applying 3 coats of finish to a 6-sided bamboo rod, the surface of the epoxy was round rather than hexagonal. While the lite epoxies may require additional coats, your circumstances will benefit considerably.
Let us all know how things turn-out. Good luck!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Thanks for all the awesome help guys! Based on what I read, I will be adding some more epoxy to see how it goes without touching the current application. Ill post pics once I get it to where I want it :)

Again... I'll assume you are talking about decorative cross wraps - open wraps where you have thread and then bare blank. Yes the thread will be higher than the blank and so, too, will the finish. About all you can do in that instance is to keep applying finish until you have enough depth to sand everything flat, and then do a final recoat over everything.

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Before you sand the wavy areas flat as Tom suggests above make sure you have a variety of sandpaper grits and take it slow . Sanding is the way you get to that even smooth as glass finish that you said you want . I personally would never allow a thick wavy finish to remain on a rod and just keep applying more epoxy . I would apply enough , let it cure and then sand as Tom suggests above. In my experience i find sanding residue to be just as easy to remove as any other type of grit , piece of cake . If you want more info on sanding and why it's so popular for removing those cured uneven sections of finish read through the archives or Library articles above that talk about it .

I think i remember a little bit of what Lynn B said a while back to get rid of the wavy sections , use a flat sanding block NOT your fingers which don't allow you to keep the sandpaper perfectly flat , a block makes it much easier to see and remove those high points.

Herb is correct on the sanding block - I just assume that people would know you have to use one or you won't get a flat surface.

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Ken,
So much for my attempt to help; Good luck!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Well last night I added a 2nd coat with thinned epoxy and it worked great! Its not final yet as I do see some slightly wavy spots yet. I think Im gonna add another thin layer tonight and see if that gets the final spots leveled off. I want to avoid using sandpaper if I can just because I have read horror stories where someone used to much and it adversely affected the existing finish. I have a really fine sanding block, think 450 grit, if need be then I will use that after the 3rd coat.

I'd hate to figure how many butt wraps there are in the world that have been sanded and look beautiful, no scratch marks, no highs or lows. Don't be afraid to do it. Ensure that you have enough finish that you won't sand into your thread, use a block and sand carefully. A new coat of finish will even hide sanding evidence from as coarse as 220 paper. Any sanding dust is easily removed with a vacuum and tack cloth. Fear not, go forth and sand!!

You can make a sanding block from a piece of scrap wood - just wrap the sandpaper around it. Typically you'd sand from a start of maybe 220, then to 320 and then to 400. Not really necessary to go any further.

Not sure I'd advise thinning the epoxy, but if it did okay for you, well enough.

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I might try another layer again tonight, not sure yet. It looks pretty good as it is now. Not perfect but a bit better than it was before. I thinned the epoxy because I didn't want to sand the excess off just to add too much again :(

Applying epoxy is very similar to applying any clear finish or paint. If you've ever wondered how some boats have incredibly flat varnished timber cabin sides or how the topsides are perfectly flat and fare. The same principles and methods apply.

Like varnish, you apply a thin coat first. With epoxy make sure the temps are optimum to get good flow and thread penetration.

Its better to get a chemical bond with each layer so while the epoxy is still soft apply coats. Removing thread fluff lint etc with a blade between coats. Not worrying to much about high spots. The idea is to build up the low spots. On varnished cabins etc we would normally spot fill the lows with multi layers of varnish. You can do this with epoxy but need to have the technique down. We would work on 7 layers of varnish. Block back by hand then hope the 8th coat was perfect.

3- 5 coats (wrap pending) might see you ready for the first block back. As everyone has said go slow and be careful not to go through into your thread when sanding. Use a stiff block of timber or even better 2-3 tongue depressors glued together. (mini fairing board) You want to clamp them together between two flat pieces of timber and use the same glue as you would for grips etc.

Now if your were serious you could make up a few and use these for the different grit paper. light coat of contact cement to keep the paper on and bingo you have mini fairing boards and flat epoxy :)

The lows will show as shiney bits.

I have since finished up the butt section, it came out pretty good. I ended up applying 2 coats, sand, then apply 2 more coats. Its not perfect but no visible waves and looks pretty solid. Best Ive done thus far.

I just put on the underwraps for all the guides. I added the wraps, put on CP then a thin layer of epoxy over each. Next is to prep the guides then star wrapping them.