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Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Shawn Giguere (172.58.172.---)
Date: September 10, 2019 12:48PM

I like the look of the underwrapped guides on my fly rods but heard it's not good because of the weight of the excess material what do you guys think thank you.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 10, 2019 12:55PM

Unnecessary and in most cases it will rob you of some speed. The rod will react and recover a bit more slowly that it would if you left the under wraps off.

You an always make "fake" under wraps by adding a narrow trim band at each end.

...........

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: September 10, 2019 03:05PM

Shawn

For fly rods and light tackle under wraps do not add any structural value to the completed rod but does add eye appeal.

You said you like the look of under wraps on your fly rods and if you are actively fishing with them and are happy with them then by all means continue with what you are doing.

Any influence the under wraps introduce in to the build is insignificant and is subconsciously compensated for during the learning period where you get to "know" the rod.

That is what I think.

Have fun

John

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (72.239.229.---)
Date: September 10, 2019 03:50PM

It all depends on what you want from a rod. If you like the look of a fly rod more than the rod's distance performance - like you aren't planning to cast much farther than 35 feet - then the weight of the finished rod is of little importance. Accuracy should not be harmed.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Quinn Canfield (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: September 10, 2019 06:09PM

I have not done any scientific analysis (weighing) but I find it hard to believe that running thread under the guide (not necessarily under the feet) is any heavier than the difference between running REC and regular guides or singles vs double. Perhaps this matter in a 2wt rod but 6+?

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Donald La Mar (---.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 10, 2019 08:08PM

Shawn

I'm with you - sort of. Love the under wrap look, but the additional weight and performance loss is nothing to love.

Just finished a 1 - 2 weight fly rod. It is sort of a novelty but it will fish. Cannot imagine guide under wraps on the rod, especially way out towards the tip where 1/0 and 2/0 snakes look huge. But a single under wrap for the strip guide would not be the end of the world and you could rationalize the additional weight by omitting the hook keeper.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (72.239.229.---)
Date: September 10, 2019 09:07PM

It's not just the weight, but the leveraged weight. Weight added near the fulcrum-handle will have a modest effect, while weight added toward the tip of the rod will have an increased effect the further the weight is toward the tip-top and the lighter the blank is.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Quinn Canfield (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: September 10, 2019 10:16PM

Phil,
I understand the physics but as I already said unless you are building a 1,2,3 wt rod there is more weight variation in guides then the few wraps of thread you are adding. I just grabbed my scales and a couple of different guides and here is what I found

All guides are about the same size.

Chrome wire snake: 1.5gr (size 1)
REC Recoil heavy: 1.1 gr (size 2)
Single foot: 1.2 gr
12 feet of size A thread: 1.3 gr

I don't have any smaller guides. I've never built anything lighter than a 4 weight fly rod.

Based on these quick measurements you can save more weight using all REC light (which I did not measure because I don't use them) instead of standard chrome double footers the you will ever use in a basic size A underwrap. Especially if you don't wrap under the feet just under the guide "ring". Most people don't use the REC guides due to cost.
After all is said and done. Do a quick wrap without epoxy and decide for you self. If you don't like the way it responds cut the guides off and rewrap!

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: John DeMartini (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: September 10, 2019 10:22PM

Can anyone tell what the increase in casting distance would be if under wrap is not used.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 10, 2019 10:51PM

The effect is noticeable and definite. What Phil mentioned above is worth taking to heart. It's not just about casting distance - it's about overall rod speed which is how quickly the rod reacts and recovers. It really doesn't take that much additional weight to make a practical difference in any rod outside of the real heavyweights.

Build two identical fly rods in almost any weight, and put underwraps on one and no underwraps on the other. Try them both and I can almost guarantee you that when you go fishing you will reach for the one that is not underwrapped.

...............

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: September 11, 2019 08:36AM

I think Tom was saying a wrap just in the space between guide feet on any 2 foot guide.
That way you get the look without adding unnecessary weight.
If that makes your custom rod special to you, do it.
Just remember that you are adding a tad more weight and yes, it will slow down the action slightly.
Some things we have done is White in the space between guide feet, Red guide wraps on a Blue blank.
Makes a nice Patriotic look.

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 11, 2019 09:57AM

Same on single foots - if you make a narrow trim at each end of the actual wrap, it will look just like you under wrapped the single foot guide.

...........

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (72.239.229.---)
Date: September 11, 2019 11:05AM

What Tom said, and heavy on the "narrow". Embellishment on a fish pole is like make-up on a good-looking woman: Too much is not attractive. Quite the contrary.

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Re: Under wrapping fly guides
Posted by: Shawn Giguere (172.58.175.---)
Date: September 12, 2019 06:08AM

Thank you everyone for responding with all the really good information will definalty be building the second rid differnt without underwraps

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