I'm looking for a thread that will be translucent after the epoxy finish is applied (no CP obviously). I've seen it on St. Croix fly rods and like the look of being able to see the guide feet through the finish. I called St. Croix but they weren't telling what thread they are using. I tried some Fuji on a test wrap, but it ended up more opaque than I hoped. I test wrapped some white silk and Gudebrod black/white twist today and the Gudebrod was the best so far. Any suggestions?

Hmmm. Almost any rod building thread that isn't "color fast" will be translucent when epoxy is applied.

I have used Gudebrod, ProWrap, and ThreadHawk. All are equally excellent. Gudebrod is no longer in business, but lots of their thread is out there and available. I will say that ProWrap from Mudhole is a good substitute for the traditional standby of Gudebrod.

You can do a quick prewrap on your blank and "coat" with water to give a good idea of what a real wrap will look like once finished with epoxy.

Drew

David,
While certainly not a veteran, an apprentice at best, may I suggest regular nylon, (NOT NCP) to suit your fancy. For the ultimate as far as transparency goes, use silk. I am simply reciting what I have observed on this site and not from actual experience. I always use NCP with no CP. Those more experienced will certainly reply.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

look to the left Hitena has some

white silk thread will give you the most translucent wraps

Couple of options depending on how "translucent" of a look you are trying to get. Those St Croix rods are using regular nylon, I am familiar with the look they have. Depending on the base color of the blank, they are using a thread color that is slightly lighter in shade than the blank. You will have to experiment a bit. Get a couple of colors that are lighter and up to the color of your blank, do some test wraps on the butt section where your grip and reel seat are going to be, then you can just "peel" them up when you find the color that suits you. With Regular Nylon, you can get a translucent look, but there will still be some contrast between the blank and guide wrap, while still using any 2 part thread finish.

If you are looking for a clear or invisible look, you have to use Silk, either White or Natural. For me, White Silk will only go totally invisible on a "clear fiberglass blank", these blanks are raw, somewhat absent of color in the prepeg. Some McFarland and Kabuto are this color, or lack of color. When I have used White Silk on any other color blank, it looked awful, some of the thread went invisible, and some still showed up. Answer to that was Natural color Silk for blanks that have color to them, the Natural shade Silk when totally invisible, looking like just the thread finish was holding the guides on. If Natural Silk was used on those clear Fiberglass blanks, you could see a small hint of color, not much, but you could see that small hint of contrast. Thread finish also will have a slight impact on this, I found that a thread finish with the lowest viscosity, like Thread Master Lite will penetrate the best.

Back to the St Croix rods, they will tell you the color of thread, but they are buying their thread from a manufacturer that does not sell to the general public these days. I have had to call them a couple of times over the past several years when a rod has come in for a guide repair, you just need to get the right person on the phone. The last time, last fall, they did tell me the color, but it was a custom color that they have dyed for them specifically, one of the colors that Pro Wrap offers was very very close to what they use. If I was a betting man, I'd say this same thread manufacturer supplies the same "brands" of thread we use.

David

While you are experimenting consider trying 100 weight, or 3/0, silk. Use as little tension as possible and do not over pack. To finish apply a first coat of ThreadMaster Lite using 3 ML hardener, 3 ml resin, an 3 ml acetone. This is the finish formula for clear wraps and it does a great job for the lighter colors you want to be translucent. To my eye silk sometimes has more "pop" than nylon, especially for lighter pastels, and nylon wins more often for the darker hues.

Listen to Steve and Donald.

Hi David,

If you look for totally invisible wrap, our undyed silk thread (AAAA or AAA) will do the job - take a look at this photo [hitenausa.com]. You just need to thin 1st coat epoxy. If you need something going translucent with a strong nuance of original colors, we have Metallic Noble thread which is especially nice for bamboo rods with its sheen color. You can check how it comes out on dark blank without color preserver here [hitenausa.com].

Thanks.

Gabriel Hwang
Hitena USA LLC
gabriel@hitenausa.com
[www.hitenausa.com]

I've got a spool of 3/0 white silk that I test wrapped with, and I was seeing more visible thread after applying Flex Coat Lite than I wanted to see. So I called Hitena. Very informative and they gave me some great tips. They said that the natural was best for transparency, so I ordered some of that. They also told me that to get a totally transparent wrap, thin your finish with acetone (which was mentioned above) and before application of the finish, wet the thread with ethanol (I'll use DNA instead of Smirnoff), then apply the finish. It should go totally transparent. I'm going to do some new test wraps with the instructions provided by Hitena, and I also ordered some natural colored silk from them. Only downside that I can see is that the largest diameter natural thread they have is AAA which is smaller than A nylon.

I'm considering using this silk on a Phenix blank I'm building up that has a very pronounced carbon fiber appearance and I'd like to retain that. Thanks for all the tips and help. Where would I be without you?

Dave Sytsma

What weight fly rod are you building? !00 weight, 3/0, silk is OK for 6 weights and less.

David,

Thanks for your call this afternoon. Just to make it clear, we didn't mix acetone in epoxy - we just applied very tiny bit of ethanol on wrap until it just turned transparent and then applied epoxy on it. I'm sure mixing some acetone will give better result but the photo you have seen is a result of using ethanol only. Sorry if I made you confused.

Thanks.

Donald,

It's not a fly rod. It's a 60-130#, 7' saltwater bait rod to be used for big tuna and other fish of that class.

Hitena,

Thanks for clarifying your process for me, I look forward to receiving the thread. The photos on your website are amazing. Should you read this post, and knowing what I intend to do, let me know if the thread will be sufficient to the task. Otherwise, I'll contact you again tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dave Sytsma

David,

Yes, AAAA Natural Silk was exactly the one we used for that invisible wrap you saw at our homepage. Wetting with ethanol on the wrap just until the it turns transparent, that was all we have done - nothing mixed into epoxy. We strongly recommend 2 coats coz first coat is applied on ethanol so it's not as firm as pure epoxy finish. Your package was shipped yesterday.

Thanks.

I vouch for hitena 100%, that silk thread is awesome..

I did a bunch of test wraps last night with the silk I got from Hitena, some white silk I think I bought from Anglers's Workshop a while ago, and some #30 natural colored Tire brand silk. I'm not up on the diameter terminology of silk as compared to nylon rod wrapping thread, but the #30 Tire silk looked about like a D or E nylon thread. I used Flex Coat Lite thinned with acetone and Threadmaster Lite also thinned with acetone. Some wraps were wetted with DNA prior to the application of the finish, some were coated with the two brands of thinned finish without initial DNA wetting, and some had unthinned finish of both the epoxy brands. All wraps showed a degree of translucency but the clear winner (pardon the pun) hands down was the Hitena, both with the DNA wetting prior to epoxy and without DNA wetting. The thinned Flex Coat did a better job than the Threadmaster Lite. The Hitena is indeed very nice thread; my only concern is if it will be strong enough in the intended application. I'll be doing an under wrap and a double top wrap on the roller guides. As mentioned, this would be used on roller guides on a 60-130# saltwater bait rod for big tuna. I've always worked under the assumption that you can use D thread on a heavy guide for strength, or twice as many wraps of thinner thread like A to achieve the same result. Flawed logic? I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

I am just repeating what I read somewhere. But the gist of it was that silk,when compared to an equal size nylon is actually stronger.

Chuck,

That was my understanding as well. However, I think I 'm going to abandon using the silk on the rod in question until I understand it's characteristics better. I'll be using this rod in about three weeks, and owing to the fact that I've got some other rods I need to build as well I don't currently have the luxury of time to evaluate it. Even though I'll have several rods on the trip to choose from, this is my first spiral wrap and I intend to use it extensively to check it out against a conventional wrap. Nylon thread being a known quantity, I'll run with that this time.

Dave Sytsma

Dave, I can relate. Not many differences to note. The biggest one is that you can't pass wraps over a flame to take care of any fuzzies, as it's a natural fiber as opposed to nylon. It can also fray a little easier.

Dave, I can relate. Not many differences to note. The biggest one is that you can't pass wraps over a flame to take care of any fuzzies, as it's a natural fiber as opposed to nylon. It can also fray a little easier.