Hi Herb,

Which brand would you recommend for braid line? I am thinking of getting the PowerPro. For the ULTC145500, I plan to use 30 pound braid line and may be 50 pound for ULTC1414000.

Johnny

Power pro is fine , any brand name will suffice , tell me the type of conditions you fish under , is it sandy beaches with relatively smooth bottoms or rocky shorelines where lots of hard structure is encountered and snags and cut off's are common ?

Mostly rocky shorelines and sometime sandy beaches depend on where the fish has gone. Occasionally I do get some snags. For stripper bass, I use top water lures.

Many surf fisherman fishing spinning reels choose 50 pound braid for plugging with top waters and it's a mistake , the line rarely comes into contact with the bottom and greatly limits the distance potential of these types of long cast spinning outfits . Since you admit you're kind of starting out however a heavier line is not a bad choice .


I would choose 40 pound however which is capable of pulling an automobile up off the ocean floor and more than strong enough to handle even giant fish in the surf . You will still be capable of casting plenty far but have a line heavy enough to allow mistakes without costing you the fish of a lifetime.

For the lighter outfit start with 20 pound braid not 30 , don't forget most 20 pound braids actually have a real life breaking strain of 40 + pound line so no fish (Unless you lock down the drag) will break you off . Twenty pound braid will also allow you to see just how amazing the reels you purchased can cast and perform . Can you move up to 30 pound , absolutely but try 20 first , i have no doubt you will be exceptionally pleased .

From what i have seen with surf fisherman who fish the Ultegra long cast spinners on the east coast, they prefer 20 pound when plugging for Striped bass , some like 30 but most 20 . Now there are plenty of guys that use spinners like the Van Stahl models , those guys are not obsessed with max distance because if they were they would never use a Van Stahl .

Those guys like to wade way out or swim out and skish ( Fish while floating around) and Van Stahl's allow you to do that . But that's a story for another day .

Hi Herb,

20 pounder braid line works for me. Lighter is better and hold more capacity. I like it.

Thanks,

Johnny

Lighter is not always better Johnny , lighter lines definitely increase your rod/reels performance potential but you need to balance it all based on the fish you're pursuing and environmental conditions of where you will be fishing .

Sometimes heavier lines are needed and many still use mono for certain types of fishing but with the types of rods you purchased and the reels you purchased to pair with those rods it's clear that max casting distance is something that is important to you . I just want to make sure that what you choose is appropriate and will provide you with what your expectations are so you won't walk away disappointed.

You did a great job picking the blanks and reels to fit what you want to do , many do not do so well and end up with poorly chosen gear for what they want to do . Lately it's been choosing spinning reels that are far too big and heavy for the blank they bought to use it on. You nailed that part

Johnny


KW30, KW25, KW16 Choke guide: KW12 Running guides: KW8 X9




The above choices are a NO GO !!!

For braid even up to 50 pound the KW 30 is too large a ring size , for 30 pound mono it's an excellent choice but not braid . The reasoning behind it is that going with a 30,25,16,12 etc... makes very little change in choking down the line because the ring sizes are only slightly smaller as the line is being moved forward and the result is more guides than necessary which has very little benefit other than adding additional weight . What you want is a guide setup that goes from the largest stripper then instantly moving into a substantially smaller diameter second reduction guide ( Not only a slightly smaller 2nd reduction guide) it should be considerably smaller in diameter BUT of the correct height and then into the last even smaller 3rd reduction guide then your choke guide which will be a KB and runners matching the KB's choker guides size out to the tip .

Figuring out the best choice in ring size diameters and height takes time and a lot of testing but it's worth it , choosing ring sizes that are larger than what is absolutely necessary is lost energy and efficiency to the entire setup as a whole .

Now this is with braid , with mono which is considerably stiffer you can't choke mono down that quickly so this is in regard to braid and it's inherent suppleness.

Hi Herb,

I'll stay with KL-H guide for now when using braid. Thanks for the explanation. There is so much to learn.

Johnny

Johnny , what i'm doing is explaining the " Whys" of things when i'm not sure it's necessary to do that , i just figured you would want to know WHY the guides you asked about initially were not the best choice for your specific application but maybe you don't care about the reason why and just want someone to tell you what would be a better choice.

I don't know how you feel but it sounds like you're a little overwhelmed and that's not a good thing . This stuff is not difficult but the terminology can make it sound that way , anyway's enjoy your weekend.

Hi Herb,

To be honest, when I post the question, I just want to get some feedbacks or suggestions whether I am in the right direction of using the correct guide train and size and type. However, your explanation involved in line, reel and guide types. It is a lot to learn. Then, I went to read the KR concept information last night that Norman provided me and I start to realize your explanation is concise and plus the examples you provide me make it simple to understand. I don’t think your explanation is overwhelmed, but it is good stuff and blew my mind. KR concept is about find the choke guide, using running guides and reduction guides to achieve the maximum casting distance. The goal is providing great performance at reduced weight by using small guides. Once I have a better idea how’s the concept works, just like you said this stuff is not difficult to understand. I have to admit I am a slow learner. I hope you are not mad at me. The only bugging me is I have been using monofilament line for all my fishing and stocking a lot of service spools ranging from 6 to 100 pound. It lasts me for life. Switching from mono to braid line is it like a different ball game. Don’t get me wrong, changing is good. I am sure I will like it when I try. Also, using 20 pound braid line, I can cast further as compare to 30 pound mono because it is lighter. As a surf fisherman that is what you want to achieve.

It took for Fuji years to research the KR concept and took you years of perfect the KR concept. I am just benefit from your experience without much pain. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. I hope other reader will benefit that too. Also, I am a big fun of you, Norman, Mark Talmo, Tom Kirkman, and Jim Ising. You guys rock!

Thanks,

Johnny

Johnny , you're very kind and i agree all the members who take the time to respond are fantastic and all deserve an equal amount of credit and i can say with 100% certainty that nobody is upset with you let alone mad at you . What disappoints us the most is when people like yourself do not experience the joy and fun that custom rod building provides .


It should never be a daunting and frustrating endeavor it should be enjoyable and provide a great deal of personal satisfaction and pride , that is what every member that comments is trying to accomplish and all suggestions are about helping you achieve that end goal .

herb canter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rogers comment was indeed for the thread directly
> below this one , it happens .
>
>
> Johnny you're correct , the Aero Technium 10000
> XSC was sold in the USA for a very short time a
> few years back but they quickly scrapped it and my
> guess was the price $ 700 .00 + . It is nearly
> identical in size to the ULC14 14000 XTC the main
> difference being the oscillation system which
> utilizes Shimano's super slow 10 instead of
> Shimano's super slow 5 . The super slow 10 wraps
> 100 feet of line per every one full up/down
> oscillation cycle . The super slow 5 wraps exactly
> 50 feet of line per one full up/down oscillation
> cycle.
>
> I decided on the RV25 - RV16- KW 10M - KB 5 for
> the choke and KT 5's out to the tip and it's
> performance is draw dropping. I'm happy to tell
> you though that you don't need to spend RV type
> money because i spent a ton of time thoroughly
> testing many different guide setups and found that
> going with single foot's in the KL25H - KL10H -
> KL5.5M is a guide train that throws every bit as
> far as the RV double foot setup .
>
> I tested the KL25H -KL12H AND KL6M and it wasn't
> quite as good as the former and it's apparent as
> to the reasons why , i use very light braid (
> Under 20 ) for all my surf fishing and have been
> for decades and with braid that light you DO NOT
> want to use ring sizes any larger than absolutely
> necessary.
>
> Now if i was using heavier braid i would choose
> the KL25H -KL12H KL6M combo but since i don't
> use heavier braid i prefer the KL25H - KL10H -
> KL5.5M . Both surf rods are 11 feet long

Hi Herb, i'm interested in doing the KR concept on a Black Hole Cape Cod Surf II 10'. I'll be tossing heavier braids so would be using KL25H -KL12H AND KL6M, would the running guides all be KT6?