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small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tim Veale (---.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca)
Date: August 02, 2019 12:07PM

The tip section of my two piece 9 ft fly rod has ten ss snake guides sized 3 x #2, 4 X #3, #4 and #5. I have broken this section and the mfg has provided a new tip section which I now must equip with the right guides. Since my running line now includes an #8 skagit with a loop to loop to a #8 level line, I am worried about the proper sized guides to install. I'd switch to single foot TLSG fuji or stay with snake guide, possibly slightly larger? The rod tip dia is 1.6 mm and the action stiff so weight is also a consideration. Any ideas or comments welcomed. Thank in advance.

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 12:24PM

Tim,
Is your rod a #8?
There are so many integrated lines of that weight on the market - I'm surprised that you are still using heads.
And can I assume what you call the #8 "level line" is your running line?.
Without more info I would eliminate the #2's and use all #4 REC recoil single foot (Preferred) or snakes.
If you eliminate the loop-to-loop by using an integrated line I would use 3's.
Are you actually casting Skagit style? - or just using the Skagit for a super weight forward line?
Herb

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: August 02, 2019 12:57PM

Factory made loops at the end of the running line are five or six times wider than the line itself, while the running line is and should be a fraction of the diameter of the fly line. Cortland makes "slip-on" end loops which greatly reduce the diameter of your loop-to-loop connection of line to backing. These are simple hollow-core, braided nylon loops with a sleeve you "caterpillar" down over the end of your running line after you cut off the welded loop. This will decrease the diameter of your line-to-backing connection by at least 50% and still allow quick and easy loop-to-loop line changes.

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 02, 2019 01:16PM

You want the smallest guides you can use and still provide easy clearance for your loop to loop set-up. I'd set it up with fewer sizes to begin with. Maybe try the stripping guide, another ringed guide, then go straight to all #2's. Tape it up and see if your connections will pass easily under all conditions. If not, remove the #2's replace with #3's and try again. The instant you have a set up that will easily pass your connections, stop.

..............

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 05:23PM

There is no reason that a knot need go through the tiiptop and on into the guides, regardless of any reasonable leader length. Reel in just short of having the knot enter the tiptop, then loop the line around the reel and back up the rod to a guide frame. Even if you have to go to a guide, it's really no big deal to use it as a keeper.

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 06:19PM

A Skagit on a 9ft rod is a puzzle! They are made for Spey or Switch rods, not single hand rods. Like Micheal says, it is best to keep the loops and or knots outside the tip top, thus eliminating the issue. Are you sure about that tip top diameter, or are talking about the tube diameter, even then it is small for an 8wt.

I build a lot of Spey rods and never use a running guide larger then a #4 single foot.

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 02, 2019 06:30PM

If your loop to loop connection is 30 feet out, it will have to come back inside the rod guides on any fish retrieval.

..................

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 06:56PM

Tim,
Un-hide your email and we can chat,
Many people use Skagit with a single handed rod
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2019 06:57PM by Herb Ladenheim.

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 09:15PM

Tim,
It is up to you, but you can put on any size guides that you wish on a rod.

There are a lot of rod makers that have stopped building rods with micro and very very small guides for the reasons posted above.

Also, for a lot of older fisher folks, they just find it too difficult to work the lines through very small guides. As the body gets older, the eyes get older, the hands become less steady and to enjoy the hobby of fishing, it is necessary to have larger guides to be able to easily enjoy the hobby and sport of fishing.

Good luck

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tim Veale (---.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca)
Date: August 03, 2019 09:00AM

Pretty much all of my fly fishing is packed into a couple of weeks each year; salmon fishing in Quebec's Gaspe peninsula. Here, you get a mix of equipment demands. People use single handed, switches and spey rods with many different line combos. Lots of variables are always present, sometimes on the same day. I've been fishing these rivers for over 40 years but nowadays do not have the strength to risk venturing into too much depth, nor the power to reach the far seam. I do have extensive inventory that can match almost any situation but my aim is to carry less of it and make the best of what I like to use. A VPS 896 two piece is one of my favorites and last year I added a longer fighting butt to it and began using it two handed sometimes. I liked the way it worked with a shooting head and I could easily change it for a different presentation without too much re-rigging. Not the perfect setup perhaps but for me it works with the Alders at my back and the old roll cast at work. Fast forward to the present. The VPS rod was broken last year and the replacement warranty provided me with a new blank. I have stripped off all the old guides for possible re-use and have purchased a new cork and reel seat. What I am trying to do now is decide whether or not to install a new guide-set to accommodate the tackle above... or just re-install the old set and stop dreaming about improving a good rod with some bad choices of my own.
Thanks for the comments. Hope this serves to clarify a bit.
Tim

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: August 03, 2019 09:25AM

Yup, 30 feet is way beyond what I was thinking. About half of that max is what I meant by "reasonable."

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Steve Gardner (---.nc.res.rr.com)
Date: August 03, 2019 01:11PM

Roger
Your Quote:
"There are a lot of rod makers that have stopped building rods with micro and very very small guides for the reasons posted above."
I've seen you post similar comments a couple of times.

Can you name those rod makers?
Or
Is that a choice you have made and assume a lot of others have followed suite?

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: August 03, 2019 08:35PM

Pretty sure we're talking about fly rods here. Regardless, you always want to use the proper sized guides on any rod. And the proper size will be the smallest guide that will still easily pass your line and any connections and hold up to the task required.

...........

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Re: small guides and loop to loop line junction
Posted by: Tim Veale (---.yyz.frontiernetworks.ca)
Date: August 15, 2019 09:49AM

A few years ago I entered a topic on this board concerning single foot guides versus double footers to get opinions on whether or not the size and weight factors were sufficiently in favor of one, or the other. The standard answer was as per Tom's post above but I suspect that single foot titanium guides on a fly rod could be better than ss snakes on the upper tip section. Consider the tip section of a two piece 9 foot fly rod is normally populated by 9 guides. If one switches to single footers, two sizes bigger as recommended for the task in actual use, and possibly one less guide (not tested), Does anyone have reason to agree that the single foot setup might be better, weight and efficiency wise; or am I still daydreaming as before. I realize there is no big practical gain here. It's simply a question that nags me a little.

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