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Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.179.---)
Date: August 01, 2019 10:20PM

I am going to build a 9' travel surf rod on a RodGeeks blank SRF90MMF4 which is a 4pc blank rated for 8-20lb mono and 1/2 to 2 1/2 oz lures. I plan to use a Saltist 4500 spinning reel loaded with 30lb braid targeting Roosters, Jack Crevalle, snappers, etc., casting lures. I will be using a Saltist 4500 spinning reel. I am not certain what guides to use. Is this a KR concept situation? I ran a calculation on the KR GPS and it said to use the 20H 10H and 5.5M KLH guides, but the calculator does not allow 30 lb braid as a criterion. Also, are singe foot guides a proper choice for this rod?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: August 01, 2019 11:25PM

If you want to go KR concept i would go KL 25 H - KL 12 H to a 6 M but you can go to the 5.5 M . The slightly larger ring sizes will allow you a little more leeway if going to heavier braid . These are all single foots . I believe you said you will be fishing off a boat in the past , if that's the case you may want more strength and go with double foots because boat rods can get banged around . Anything heavier than 30 pound braid i would choose something other than the KR concept .

Most any guide types with a 25 size ring with good height will work fine with what you want to do.

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (---.stormvip.com)
Date: August 02, 2019 10:33AM

Thanks Herb. You are correct, this is a boat rod. Mostly I fish from shore but I have other rods for that.

You said "If you want to go KR concept." Well its not that I want to go KR concept, its more like that is all I know so I started there. If there is a better system for this rod I will use it. I think I prefer the double foot guides for the reason you stated. I am not sure which ones I would use. The Fuji KW series is the highest I can find so far, but they seem considerably lower than the KLH: KLH is 55, 43, 18 for 25H, 16H 6m, respectively, and the KW is 42, 21,and 8,7 for the same ring sizes. That seems like a considerable height difference. Enough to abandon the KR layout? If so, then what do I use, the New Guide Concept system?

I wont be going less than 30lb braid. I would like to leave open the possibility of 40 lb braid, lots of guys use that down there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2019 01:10PM by Bob Ginther.

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 01:26PM

The only option i see that has the height in double foot is the KW 30 NOT the KW 30 L . Although i find the 30 ring much larger then i would prefer for braid the KW 25 doesn't have the height needed in the double foot frame and neither does the Fuji double frame guides in the MN style either so i would choose the regular frame KW 30 because it's the next best option , has the height and allows you to use the heaviest braid with no issues.


Something along the line of KW 30, 20 , 12 , 8 or 7 's on out. DO NOT go with 30,25,20,16,12 , 8 .

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (---.stormvip.com)
Date: August 02, 2019 02:01PM

Thanks Herb. How do I locate the reduction and choke guides on the blank?

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: August 02, 2019 02:11PM

Follow the below :

[www.rodbuilding.org]

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (---.stormvip.com)
Date: August 02, 2019 02:26PM

Thank you very much Herb

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (162.245.179.---)
Date: August 03, 2019 07:58PM

Herb, I calculated the choke guide location using both the 27 x spool diameter as mentioned in the referenced article, and also using the reel measurements calculator program on the Anglers Resource website for the New Guide Concept system. The 27x method gave choke guide location at 1647 mm / 64.8", and the NGC calculator gave a choke guide position at 1336mm / 52.6". Roughly a 12" difference. Is this typical? and how do I reconcile the difference, given that it seems with the NGC locating the choke guide is the key to the whole setup?

I measured the reel very carefully and several times... it seems the difference of a mm makes a significant change in choke guide location, so I assume there has to be considerable leeway in locating the cg using the reel measurement method.

Do i split the difference between the the method locations?

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: August 03, 2019 08:32PM

Choke guide position is not written in stone. Both the 27X and reel up sweep methods are merely suggestions. There is quite a bit of flexibility in setting up a guide train. Do it both ways, static test and then test cast both, then move things around and see which works the best. Everyone knows when a rod casts well. The use of braid allows for a lot flexibility in setting up a guide train.
What I like to do is to tape the guides in place, and then put on the reel and run the line through the guides and tie on a light weight, and let it just hang from the rod tip. Now hold the rod horizontal and take a finger and push the line to the bottom of the spool. What you should see is a straight line from the bottom of the spool to the choke guide, and another straight line from the choke to the tip top, with the line touching the bottom of each guide. A slight angle going into the stripper is Ok. This is an easy way to get the guides ‘bulls-eyed’. It works for me and it’s easy to do and it should perform well.
Norm

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Re: Need help with guide layout for 9' surf rod
Posted by: Bob Ginther (---.stormvip.com)
Date: September 12, 2019 01:57PM

Update on this build and a new question. After realizing that I wanted to preserve the ability to go up to 40 lb braid but not below 30, I decided to build this rod with a New Guide Concept layout. Using the 27x formula for locating the choke guide, I calculated that the choke guide should be approximately 64 inches from the front face of the spool. (61 mm spool diameter times 27 equals 1647 mm divided by 25.4 equals approximately 64 to 65 inches.) If I locate the choke guide 64 inches from the front of the spool face that leaves only 18 inches to the tip of the rod. Figuring that I need 10 guides for this 9 foot rod plus a tiptop, and 3 of the guides will be in the reduction train, that means I am somehow supposed to locate 7 running guides within that last 18 inches? That does not seem feasible or logical. Is the Saltist 4500 too big of a reel for this 9 foot surf rod? The reel seat location on the blank matches the reel seat location of the 9 foot St. Croix Triumph 4 pc surf rod that utilizes the same blank that I am using. What am I doing wrong here?

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