Hello All

First of all, let me say that I have built a number of rods, but am NOT what one would call a Rod Builder. Perfection usually eludes me.

A few years ago, I bought 2 blanks and components from a local shop. On these 2 rods, and these 2 only, I've been having problems with the guides. Last season, I noticed the foot of one guide had pulled out from under the wrap but didn't think too much of it. Then, on a trip early this season, partway through the day I found a broken guide on that rod and another missing. Later in the day, with the other rod, I found 2 guides missing and 2 or 3 broken. No one I've talked to with any experience has any idea why. Alas, I stripped the guides from both rods, replaced the broken guides and re-built them. The only suggestion made to me was to extend the finish a bit further past the wraps and around the guide foot, which I did.

On the river yesterday, I found ANOTHER broken guide, right where the guide transitions to the foot -- this the same as all the others. I'll post a photo if I can.

Can anyone help!? Was I sold inferior guides? I can assure you it's not from abusing my gear -- poor casting technique maybe, but not abuse!

Hello Randy.

How do you transport them?


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Hi Bob

I transport them in a rod case, so they're always protected. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this is happening. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Randy

Randy,
In 50 years of fishing, I have never had a guide frame failure or pulling out from the wraps. Do you know what brand of guides you purchased? Since you seem to transport the rods carefully, I suspect the guides are an off-beat brand and apparently of questionable quality. I never have to worry about the quality of Fuji guides; they are the best.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

it sounds like your using snake guides and probably not enough of them on the rod to handle the load..too much of a load per guide..with so little info this is just a wild guess..wild guesses are fun..lol.

Hi Mark

Agreed -- The first rod I built was in the '80s and I still use it today. No problems at all. I suspect I got inferior guides. Thanks for the info about Fuji -- as much as I don't want to repair the rod AGAIN for this problem, it looks like a complete set of Fuji's for each rod in question is the solution.

Regards, Randy

Hi Ben

That is a logical answer, except that the number of guides and their position on the rod fit with the schematic provided by the blank manufacturer. I bought all the components from a shop owner who built the same blanks -- Batson -- and branded them for his shop. Even he has no clue why this is happening and didn't suggest the guides are inferior or that I was 'misbehaving' in some way.

Regards, Randy

if they are Batson guides. then quality is not he problem.

Do you put then in a boat rod locker.
I have seen several occasions where guys damage the guides pulling them out or pushing them in
With out realizing they are getting caught on the edges of their rod tubes, or catching them on parts of the rods storage cavity doing the same

Hello Steve

I have a Sage case which holds two rods with reels attached. Each tube has a nylon fabric separator to keep the halves of the rod apart. I'm always careful to insert the pieces gently and avoid catching a guide. Perhaps the case is somehow the problem, as it's home to the rods I've had the problem with, but I can't imagine why.

Regards, Randy

The only way a foot can come out from under the wrap is if the guide is loaded along the axis of the rod and the guides are pretty flexible, not rigid. It is most likely with very flexible guides. Are these what you would call "flexible" or "stiff?"

I think you have some junk guides. There is no assurance that that shop owner didn't get his fly guides cheap and in bulk. could be too light a wire.

I suggest you buy new name brand guides of appropriate weight wire for the rod ratings and do them over. It would be good to go over your proposed layout here as there are some pretty skilled and experienced builders of fly rods here and the philosophy of sizing has changed in the last 10 years or so.

Hi Michael

By 'axis' I assume you mean the spine. So the answer is yes, I've done my best to spine the rod and place the guides along with it on all rods I've built.

The problem I've been having is threefold -- first I found that one foot had come out from under the wrap. On another rod on another day the guides were missing, so one foot must have come out, then the other. Lastly, a number of them broke -- which may mean one foot came out and flexing from casting energy snapped the guide away from the foot that held.

Though I would say the wire is stiff enough I'd have a hard time bending it with my fingers, visually they are pretty light wire for sure.

Thanks for the feedback!

Regards, Randy

No, Randy, spine has nothing to do with what I was getting at. To have a foot come out the guide would have to have been loaded with the force parallel to the blank, not into or away from the blank. Regardless, it sounds like bad guides.

pulling too hard against a snag will pop out thin wire snakeguides..

That makes sense Ben, however, I avoid doing that. If I can't easily get free, or go to the snag itself to retrieve the fly, I point the rod tip at the snag and strip in the line until the fly comes loose or breaks off.

Flexible light-wire snake guides on a fly rod save weight and flex with the blank. I have built fly rods with REC "light" NiTi snake guides and they perform very well. With the first such build I learned to put two or three Forhan Wraps around each foot of each guide before applying epoxy to the wraps. It's quick and easy to do this, and I think it will solve your guide foot "backing out" problem.

the only thing that touches your guides is the fly line so the only thing that can pull out the guides is the fly line because the line is not sliding smoothly through the guides while under load..wire guides are high friction under load and easily dig into the surface of the flyline especially on hot days..you probably have noticed that the foot that is pulled out first is the back foot..that is because it is being pulled forward by the line which was hungup in that guide for a moment..this is why i now only use ceramic guides on all my bass buggin' fly rods, just super smooth under any load..

Are you using color preserver on your guide wraps? If so that may be the issue with the guides coming out from under the wrap, as for the guides breaking sounds like an issue with the guide itself.

Thanks for the Forhan tip -- I didn't know what they are, but do now!

No color preserver. I was on the phone with the blank manufacturer a bit ago -- he's pretty certain there is a problem with the steel the guides were made from.

Randy,
Since you had a bunch of problems with the guides, strip the rod and put on a new set of current manufacture guides.
When you wrap the guides onto your rod, be sure that you are using enough thread tension. You should be able to just barely rotate the guides after wrapping and before coating.

I also assume that you are using size A wrapping thread. Size A wrapping thread puts more wraps on a guide than a larger size guide.

Best wishes.