I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

ICRBE 2020
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Angler’s Roost
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Bingham Enterprises
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
Reelseatblanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rougarou Rods
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Magazine Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: July 11, 2019 11:24AM

hello everyone
I'm just starting my first build and i have some questions ..

im building a lamiglas 13' 2pc cpb1562ml blank pairing it with a eba callibre 2 5.1inch reel.

what guides/sizes i should be using is the first thing i would like to get out of the way.
ill be fishing in upstate ny so ice is always a issue.
I've been fishing raven rpx and i would like to use something different.
i need it to be as light as possible while still being strong enough to hold up to the weather around here.

i would like a Tennessee handle and need help figuring out how to shape the handle.
its gonna be 18inches.
how do you keep the Outside diameter even while sanding.


should i turn 2 9inch grips or glue up the whole thing on the mandrel sand it and cut it after ?

any help would be appreciated.

tight lines everyone

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: July 19, 2019 05:34PM

Hi there - been stalking this board for a few years now, finally decided to join! I saw this sat unanswered for a while now, so I felt inclined to jump in!

I build 95% CP rods. My personal go-to rod right now for great lakes steel is that exact blank - great choice!

For guides - My personal lami 6-10 build and the way I would approach it again is alps titanium, Y frame 20-16-12-10-8, then low runners of 8- and 5x 7 (11 total + tip top, you could go up to 13 guides if you like, but I got a nice flow static testing with 11 guides)... IF you want to reduce ice more, you could run 8s all the way to the tip, but 7s will save you weight and still not ice up too bad.... If you like the guides on the rpx, you could also build it with the recoils. Id still stick with a standard ring y frame guide for the first 5, then transition to the recoils for runners.... Fuji alconite or alps steel will get the job done cheap, and really most of the weight you feel is out at the tip on the runners anyway. For my personal preference, I like the titaniums.

I have never done a sliding ring build, only seats... Depending on your tools, turning at once, and a clean cut would likely match the best. Turning 2 separately to an exact diameter might be a challenge. As for keeping diameter even, I use a 1/2" thick, 4" wide board with sandpaper with whatever grit I need at the time wrapped around it, it works out well.

Hope this helps!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: July 23, 2019 10:49AM

hi Adam,
Thank you for responding.
so i originally was set on the closer blank but i had some time to think while i was waiting for responses and making the handle.
lots of builders were saying that CTS were much nicer rods for not that much more.the closer was 230$ and CTS 278$
so i went with the CTS and picked chameleon green gold.i went with the Affinity Float 13' 4-8lb.
still building a closer in a few weeks tho.

I ended up making two separate halves for the handle and once i got them both close just put them both on a longer mandrel and sanded them together and it looks
really nice I'm happy with how it came out.

I would like titanium guides and was having trouble picking them out.
I have arthritis and need to keep my rod light as possible so i can fish longer.
the guides on the RPX are not good.titanium torzite is way to much money

the titanium SiC high frame guides snap from a sneeze..
I guess the recoil aren't bad since they haven't broke on me.but they bend really bad when there cold.
I use those rubber cylinder float stops for deep water fishing and those get caught in the top recoil guide constantly.
Im just looking for something different but i don't wanna use something cheap and heavy.
you think the alps titanium are stronger than the RPX guides?

what are runner guides? (first rod build for me be nice lol)i was gonna buy 20 -16-12-10 then however many 8s and 7s i need plus the tiptop
how many of each guide should i be getting ?
i just don't wanna order the wrong sizes /amount of guides
im gonna check out the alps guides later today.
not sure what type of tiptop im going with yet.

thank you again
tight lines

owen-

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: July 23, 2019 12:13PM

Hey Owen, no problem!

I haven't personally fished or handled the 13' 4-8, but from what I understand of it, you made a great choice! Of course, since I haven't fished/handled, I can't compare one way or another to the lami closer.

Good work and great thinking on the approach to the two halves!

Agreed 100% on the lower guides on the RPX - those high frame titanium SIC do snap WAY too easy.... I have repaired several for guys, and in fact have a couple extra guides laying around ready for the next buddy that calls.

Recoils do behave strange in the cold. The first time I experienced it I thought for sure I broke a guide... But I don't hear of them breaking too often. If you go recoil, do black pearl, as the silver are rumored to be the easier grooving of the two, and I have personally seen it on RPX I have repaired, but I have not personally seen the black pearl ones groove.

I have the alps titanium on most of my rods now, and most that I have built in the past couple of years for others. Not one broken frame or ring yet, knock on wood. So yes, I would consider them stronger than the SIC high frames on the RPX.

Titanium torzite are definitely the lightest option other than recoils. BUT yes, you do need to take out a second mortgage for them! As such, I have just never played with them.

Runners are basically lower profile guides with less weight. Brings line closer to the blank, but I have never had blank ice issues using them.

With all that being said, there are three options that I would lean if it was a build for myself:
a) Alps titanium top to bottom. 20, 16, 12, 10, 8 in the TIY frame. (get bit SKU TIYTZGxx where xx is size), then a single TIPF size 8 runner, followed by as many TIPF size 7s as required. (13' rod usually needs 13 guides plus tip top). Tip top would be XTCPPCT with tube size to match the blank, and a size 7 ring.
b) Alps steel at the bottom, transitioning to recoils up top, similar to the factory closer rods. 20, 16, 12, 10, 8 in XTCYTCG (color to match the recoils as close as possible), then black pearl recoils with 1 single 8, followed by enough 8L to finish out as described above. I would use the same tip top as above as well.
c) Although the colors would be mismatched and weird looking, you could combine my first and second recommendations to save weight on the lower 5 guides. That would be TIYTZG 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, then black pearl recoils, with 1 single 8, followed by enough 8Ls as required....

The reason I sway away from recoils for the low guides is the chatter that they would be more prone to grooving. Also, being that they are so low down the rod, and closest to your hand, they don't offer as too bad of a counterweight leaning forward as much as the runners do.

As for the rubber bobber stops getting caught, is it the guide, or the tip top? I use the oval shaped ones, and although they make a lot of noise going through guides, they never abruptly stop.... Most of the time however I do not reel the stop into the guides and I actually fish a slip float as a fixed float with stops on top and bottom..... You can up your guide size to size 8 alps runners opposed to 7s for reduced chance of hang up, but this would also add some tip weight.

Just my thoughts on how I would approach. Maybe another will jump in with thoughts.... There are a TON of ways to build these things!

Any other questions, certainly fire away!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: July 29, 2019 11:41AM

ok
i have a couple things in mind while figuring this out, quality and comfort being #1.
Cost being #2,Woof they don't mess around with torzite guides.
so i wanted to throw a couple ideas your way to see what you think.

i was thinking of a couple different layouts

titanium torzite my expensive light weight setup idea .

torzite and RECoil
20h 16h 12h 10h 8h 8h 8m 8m then recoils 8 8 8L 8L 8L or 7 then tip ? 215ish$

Not sure how many torzite guides i need before the recoils to make sure I'm getting the balance right.and full benefits of the torzite .
plus when i static test i wanna make sure i have enough guides and the right sizes to add if i need to.
not sure what size guides and where to put them during the static test if adjustments are needed.obviously adding a recoil is way cheaper then adding a torzite ring

Then the other option im thinking about is the same exact setup but the alps titanium guides you suggested.flowing into recoils. just over a 100$
im unsure how many guides to use before the recoils for both ideas

still not sure about the tip guide yet
the only torzite tip i can find is the fuji kg arowana tip

hangin up on the float stops is definitely only the tip top
i had a kype rod out of Rochester ny that had fly tip top and it never got stuck on that rod so i was thinking of going with that or the fuji torzite KG .
just wondering if torzite is really worth it.

I really appreciate all your help, thanks for letting me pick your brain.
sry again for being such a beginner its hard to take in all the info out there at once.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: July 29, 2019 12:54PM

Wow! Torzite, and recoil - yes you are talking a spendy build! But, one that will feel NICE in hand!

Essentially for balance, every bit of weight you put in front of the reel seat will be felt as tip weight to some degree. Whether it is a full closed buttwrap with 10 layers of finish, or a thin wire tip top versus a thick framed steel tip top. The goal is weight at/behind the reelseat, and minimal weight from the reel seat up... The further up you get closer to the tip top, the more each gram matters.

About torzite - the rings are thin... I haven't had them in hand, but have been told at least in the small sizes for runners that you can use 7s to be equivalent to 8s.... Assuming this holds true for the larger sizes as well, you might want to get a size 16 in hand before laying out the whole guide train. I like the way a size 20 works as a stripper. If you can do an initial test order, get an alps steel size 20, next to a torzite 16, you will be able to gauge something that I know works against a guide you will use one way or another.... If the 16 is too short, or the ring size seems like it chokes up too much, then you can revert back to the plan of starting with a size 20, and still use the 16 as the 2nd guide.

IF the 16 ring and height is adequate.... You may be able to get away with 16, 12, 10, 8h, 8m in torzite..... Then run one or two recoil full height 8, then finish it with enough recoil 8L to get out to the tip. I am not sure in the height differences between torzite 8h, 8m and recoil 8 and 8L..... I do know for the goal of saving felt tip weight, you want to get down to 8L as quick as you can without being overly aggressive and run as many as possible to the tip though. Youll just want to see how each one steps down compared to one another height wise...... As for size 7 recoils, I would not advise running recoil 7 as the 8s to me are just the right size for avoiding ice, and the weight savings on 7 vs 8 is pretty negligible.

Really, as for fly tip tops, there is nothing wrong with them. Just use the hot tip top cement, if it starts to groove, you can always replace it.... I like that fuji top, but WOW 30 bucks for just a tip top!!!! Thats over my budget on ANY rod!!!! Why not try the fly top, you have liked its performance on the kype rod, so I assume you would like it on this one as well with regard to the bobber stop stopping.....

Again, no worries - I hope some of this rambling helps ya!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: July 30, 2019 11:44AM

The alps TIYTZG 20 is 41.24mm for height with a ID of 15.87
The torzite 16 is 43.3mm for height with the ID the same as a SIC 20 from what i understand.
it seems like it should be close enough its only 2mm difference

torzite 8m is 20.8mm and the recoil 8 is 12.41mm says mudhole
is 20.8 to 12.41 to big of a jump ?

here's what i came up with your help
torzite 16(43.3mm) 12(31.8mm) 10(30.2) 8H(26.8)X2 8M(20.8)X2 then RECoil 8(12.41mm)X2 8L(10.49mm)x4 plus tip
id add another 8L Recoil to the order just incase i need it during static.



gonna be grabbing finish and thread in this order also what's your go to finish for thread and what's size thread should i get?
Im using black and sliver with this rod



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2019 03:07PM by Owen degroff.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: July 30, 2019 05:20PM

Good research!

hmmmm, that 20.8 to 12.41 miiiiiiight be troublesome.... I like your layout until the 2x 8h, 2x 8m, 2x rec8...... Something might end up funky there with that height jump between the 8m and the REC8..... I would personally try your plan, static test, and see how everything lays out.

It might be beneficial to order 3 extra 8L recoils, to give yourself all kinds of options including eliminating some or even all of your 2x guides if the train just seems off.

Just to be sure - you did catch my advice to do black pearl recoils over the standard silver correct? (I have personally seen the silver recoils groove)

As for thread, I personally don't like using color preserver, and the prowrap NCP black thread is good enough for me.... Although many guys use standard prowrap black, do not put on CP, and say it provides for a deeper black.... Try each spool on a wooden dowel rod, put some finish on, and take your pick. As for the silver, all the metallics are honestly a pain to work with. I use prowrap metallic the most. I do everything in size A thread and never had an issue.

Finish to me is all a matter of learning one, and adapting techniques to how it behaves. I started with flexcoat lite, then high, didn't care for it honestly - but a lot of guys love it. To me, working life sucked maybe 15 minutes, and bubbles were always a struggle.

I use one that most guys complain about, but I have become comfortable with - U-40 Duragloss LS Supreme (original not high build)... It seems to have a good 30 minutes or more that you can work with a batch in the right conditions, and bubbles are not an issue 99% of the time. I however don't love how it levels (or does not level so well) with X wraps.... It does have a yellowish hue at first, but it does clear after a few days. Some guys claim it never becomes as crystal clear as other options.... To me, its good...... I would advise read around about preferences, and find one that most guys prefer. Plenty of threads on this board about the topic.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: July 31, 2019 07:03AM

im understanding this better now

The 8hx2 was def a mistake and i was just thinking i should grab extras of the 8m and the recs but i see what your saying and after looking at the numbers
I think i found a solution
torzite:16(43.3) 12(31.8) 10(30.2) 8(26.8) 8m(20.8) 7m(19.4mm) 7L(13.2) Then REC going 10(12.71)maybe 8(12.41) 8L(10.49) til the tip

there's still gonna be a dip between those two guides but with the rings being so much larger and the addition of the extra guides i think its gonna work out.
either way its cheaper than my original order total and this way at least ill have lots of options to try out
ill try it with the 7s and the 10 to see how smooth the transition is then go from there.

im definitely going with the black pearl.all my rpx guides are grooved .
thank for all your help

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: July 31, 2019 09:18AM

I am not sure I would personally go down to size 7 torzite, then back up to size 10 recoil.... The height with that plan looks good BUUUUUUUT The inner diameter will likely choke down on the 7 torzite, then open back up to something larger on the size 10 recoil.... I did some quick googling trying to compare actual inner diameters between the 7 torzite and 10 REC and couldnt find anything quick..... If the diameter is the same between the two, that should be a good plan.... If not, it might be pretty funky.

I think you were on the right track with your original plan more so than this one personally. As I said though, I would run with what you last proposed, and just order 3 more rec 8L to give you some options to replace some of the 2x guides and have more 8L runners.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: August 15, 2019 02:06PM

ok sooo still waiting on some of the guides to try this out (backordered).
i was planing on getting the extra guides so i had them to play with if i needed them
but i just orderd 16h 12h 10h 8h 8m 7m 7l then rec 10 8 8Lx6
I'm having trouble figuring out where to put the guides
i know im gonna start out with the 16 cause it match up with a reg 20 just fine

The suggested setup from CTS is
TIP 6.2 13.3 21.5 30.6 40.7 52.2 65.1 79.4 95.31 112.31 10 guides

then i found this setup on here that a couple people used
13' CTS from top to butt. Tip 3 1/2 7 1/2 12 17 3/4 23 3/4. 30 1/4 37 3/4 46 3/4 56 3/4 68 1/4 81 1/4 98 1/2 116 3/4. 13 guides plus tip
this is a guide train i found here that a couple others have used

i have a 5.1 inch EBA im paring it with and my handle is 19inches

funny enough i looked at my RPX to see what rec guides were on the first one is a 10 and its definitely higher than the guide before it .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Adam Trenz (---.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
Date: August 15, 2019 03:07PM

Gotta love the backorders when you are anxious to build a new toy! haha!

Right on, sounds like that will give you some options to tinker with.

As for guide count, standard rule a lot of people state out there is 13 for every foot, plus the tip top. I would say on average it is true, but I have built 13' rods with 11 guides, and 11 foot rods with 13 guides. Then throw in a baitcaster config, and the same blank I used 11 on, I used 13 on..... Always static test properly, and tinker until everything just flows. Frame heights and ring sizes can manipulate things quite a bit. I personally never tie a rod until I have performed a static with several different load weights, this is true even if identical blank and guides I have used before.... Natural manufacturing variation can vary rod to rod.... Some spines snap right into place perfectly, others are more of a dull pop.... The same is said about deflection/action.... Emphasis: static test always, and do what presents itself as "good to me". haha!

Interesting about the rpx!... youll just again have to tinker until you find something that looks right.

Hopefully the guides show soon, and excited to hear/see the finished product!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 13' lamiglas build
Posted by: Owen degroff (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: August 15, 2019 03:45PM

How do you you post pics up here ????????

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster