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Butt guide placement
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 12:33AM

I would like to know if anybody out there could please help me I have a 6'-6" light/medium color series rod I am trying to build from mud hole using performance Elite guides that came with it I used the 27 times layout to find my choke point I am using a Pflueger press20 reel O.D of the spool is 35.62mm & using 6 lb.braid, I would like to start out with a 20mm CRB Concept Style Spinning guide - Model YGY but I need to push that guide out from the reel face 22 & 3/4 Inch before I can get the line to use 360 degrees of the ring looks to be too far away, would starting out with a 16mm guide bring me closer? I have none at this time so just asking before purchasing different guides all together, was shooting for a 20- 12 -8 reduction train and # 5 or 6 running guides, Thank you.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 01:22AM

Glenn,
I never make a big deal about the stripper guide placement. On nearly all of the spinning rods that I build, I just place the stripper at either 19 or 20 inches as needed and move on from there.

In a word it simply works.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 08:19AM

.Try Roger's method. He's built quite a few rods.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 02, 2019 09:32AM

Go with whatever feels best. Or you could test cast by taping on the stripper guide in various locations and measure which placement casts best.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 09:46AM

Glenn,
I learned this from one of my clients many years ago.

He used a heavy spinning rod to make many many casts each day that he was fishing for big northern's in Canadian waters. He would make cast after cast using heavy spoons to go after the fish of his choice.

After making a couple of rods for him, he came back to me and made a simple request.

He requested that the stripper guide be of a size and a height and a placement, so that on a light tension retrieve of the line, that the line essentially just barely touched the entire 360 degrees of the stripper guide.

In all of the ensuing builds of spinning rods over the next many years, I always tried to follow his request for rods that I built for all of my clients.

By doing this - and with an appropriate guide train following the stripper guide, there is little to any drag - with the line either going out, or coming back onto the rod that will drag and - as in the original requester's point of view - extra effort to retrieve a line or to have the stripper guide cause a loss of casting distance.

This system just lets a builder choose the size, height and placement of the stripper guide to be in an optimum position by testing in the work shop and the results will translate into a great rod in the field. Ultimately, it means that as the line comes off the spinning reel spool and goes back onto the spinning reel spool that the line is making the full 360 degree movement around the stripper guide with little to no drag on any part of the guide, but it also means that the action of the line such that it does in fact get to the full 360 degrees of the circumference of the stripper guide as the line goes out and comes back in.

If the stripper is too short, too small or too close to the reel, the line will be running on only the top portion of the guide. But, if the guide is too tall, too small or at the incorrect distance, the line will be running mainly on the lower part of the guide. But, as Goldilocks said to the three bears, "When the stripper is at the right distance, the right height and the right size, every thing will be just right and the line will have the minimum drag on the guides during normal use of the rod.

Best wishes.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 02, 2019 09:51AM

Doesn't sound like you're actually using the 27X method, as it will tell you what size guides you need to use. The line path determines guide sizes and heights.

............

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 11:42AM

You are right Tom I cannot use the complete 27 times method with the guides I am using I just used it for a choke point and butt guide sizing, my goal here is to do the best I can with what I got in front of me and that is a 20,12,& 8 reduction train set up, style, frame & type listed in my post, just asking how you people would go about setting theses guides in position and what you would be looking for or trying to accomplish, Thank you.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 12:39PM

Glenn, don,t frett over guide "drag"(isn,t that an oxymoron?)..turbo guide and micro wave guide users don,t..













'

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Brian Gross (192.234.247.---)
Date: July 02, 2019 01:49PM

Just use Mud Holes guide spacing from there web site, they have all the guide spacing for all their rods.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: July 02, 2019 01:58PM

Glenn Knepprath Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are right Tom I cannot use the complete 27
> times method with the guides I am using I just
> used it for a choke point and butt guide sizing,
> my goal here is to do the best I can with what I
> got in front of me and that is a 20,12,& 8
> reduction train set up, style, frame & type listed
> in my post, just asking how you people would go
> about setting theses guides in position and what
> you would be looking for or trying to accomplish,
> Thank you.


What you're attempting to do is make the line conform to a pre-selected guide system. It really needs to be the other around - make the guides conform to the line path. But I understand if you would rather not obtain more guides. I'm sure if you play around with it enough you can cook up something that will work okay.

..........

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 02:59PM

With a spinner with a 35 mm spool diameter and 6 pound braid just about any setup will work because 6 pound braid is so ridiculously forgiving . My main spinner has a 76 mm spool diameter and i can whip 20 pound braid through a 20 mm stripper with no issues , it throws to the moon . I never use guides any larger than absolutely necessary .

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: July 02, 2019 03:29PM

It would take stupendously expensive equipment to even detect, let alone quantify the difference which guide size and guide placement would create using #6 test braid. Of course, there's no explaining how a rod feels in use, but that can only be verified by personally casting a large sample of guide sizes and spacing and blanks.

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: July 02, 2019 03:38PM

The size 20 Y guide you want to use is approximately the same height as a Fuji KL16H, and for a 2000 (20) series reel the stripper would be perfectly fine at about 19” in front of the spool. This would place the choke guide at about 19” in front of the stripper, which is right at the calculated 27X choke point. Progressively place you 12Y and 8Y between the stripper and choke guide (first running guide), and place the remaining running guides between the choke and tip top and you should be good to go. You can certainly push the choke or stripper guide in or out a little to get a good looking guide layout that gives a good static test.
If you used a size 16 Y as a stripper guide you would need to push it further away from the reel rather than closer.
Norm

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Re: Butt guide placement
Posted by: Glenn Knepprath (---.as36001.net)
Date: July 06, 2019 01:35PM

Thank you Norm for taking the time to figure this out, I did what you said and also a static guide placement casted nice in my yard epoxied it up sold it to a friend of mine and he loves it.. he said it cast as good as his name brand rods and just as sensitive, you're a smart man & I knew it could be done with a little help! at first I thought it was going to be a waste of my time….Thanks for all your replies!.... I love it!

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