Hi,

I am relatively new to rod building (last two years) and could use some insight/advice. I am thoroughly confused when it comes to which Fuji guides I should use on a rod. For example, I am gong to build a new, light action spinning rod for Crappie and Bluegill. However, when I look at the Fuji guides, there are literally a dozen different types of spinning guides (for example K, KLH, KW, MN, Y, LV, etc.). I have no idea where to start and what all of this means? What do I look for when selecting a guide set for a spinning Rod, or even a casting rod for that matter? Are there better guides available out there? I know there are different materials and single foot and double foot, but other than that what does all of this mean? Can anyone help me clarify all of this and help me choose a set of spinning guides that would go well with this new rod project rod?

Maybe I can make this a little easier....what I am looking for is a really good quality, Fuji single foot, spinning rod guide set for a light action, 6'6" spinning rod I am getting ready to start. I do not want micro guides because I am still trying to perfect my regular guide wrapping technique. Forgive me if I am rehashing a previous topic, as I am new to the site.


Can you please help me as to what would be best for my application(s)?

Thanks!!!!

Mike

Maybe this link will help.

[www.fujitackle.com]

It can not be easier.
That's for starters, then you'll come to the right conclusions.

__________________
BRC Rods USA
Best Rods Center Poland

Distributor of luxury Japanese blanks, FUJI guides.
SUZUKI BLANKS, Carefully made in Tokyo, Japan

[brcrods.com]

We also provide services to wholesale customers.

First you need to choose a guide layout format for your spinning setup - cone of flight, 27x, new guide concept, KR concept, microwave system, etc. Unfortunately, because you don't want to work with micro guides you have removed probably the best layout options for the type of rod you are building. I think you should reconsider. Other than seeing the tiny things after you drop them, the only thing I find more difficult with micro guides is holding them in place when wrapping. Once you find a system that works for you to hold them in place the wrapping is no more difficult. What works for me is small hair/rubber bands threaded through a small bead...with the bead I can adjust the tension the band is holding the guide. In my opinion, the KR concept is what you seek. This concept uses a combination of KLH, KB, and KT guides. Anglers Resource has info on the concept and a guide layout calculator (KR GPS). [anglersresource.net]

Fuji guides are excellent. For a 6’6” Light power rod I would suggest using a KR concept set up, which works wonderfully well with light line. [anglersresource.net]
This concept uses high frame small ring reduction (KL-H) guides to effectively control and rapidity choke the line coils to low profile running guides (KB and KT guides) The reduction guides are grouped by height, and are dependent on the reel and line sizes used. For example, for small reels and light line the KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M group is used. For larger reels and heavier line, either the KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M group or the KL25H, KL12H, and KL5.5 M group are used. There are two types of K running guides that are used. The first is the KB guide, it has a wider and longer foot to better resist the pullout forces developed in the mid or ‘belly’ section of the rod when fully loaded. The second is the KT guide which has a smaller lighter foot and are used in the ‘tip’ section of the rod where the pullout forces are much lower.
I’m assuming you will be using a size 1000 to 2500 size reel with light mono or light braid. If this is true I would use the KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M for the reduction train. Since you don’t want to use the very small micro running guides, I would suggest using two KB 5 (or 5.5) with the remaining runners being KT5s (or 5.5). The size 5 or 5.5 runners have a larger foot and are easier to wrap than the size 4.5 and 4 runners. As far as frame color I would use on of the corrosion control colors, either the dark grey BC, or the matte silver CC. Use a matching LG tip top.
For spacing your guides use the KR GPS. [anglersresource.net] I usually use at least one more runner than suggested by the KRGPS.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2019 01:21PM by Norman Miller.

Thank you very much for the insight and the link!

Thank you Robert!!! I appreciate the information!

Thank you Brad for the insight and the tips on placement of microguides! I am sure that would help tremendously!

Mike

Hi Norman,

Thank you for the detailed information. I do have somewhat of a better understanding after your explanation. I do have another question for you and it is in regard to the KL20H and the KL 25H guides that started out the guide set on the two main groups you mentioned. When I ran the rod through the software, I got almost the exact same recommendation within those groups, starting with a 20H However, you mentioned, in the actual suggestion you gave, that you would start out with a " KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M for the reduction train." I am curious as to why you would use the 16H over the recommended 20 or 25H. Once again, please forgive my ignorance being relatively new to this. I am thinking it would give the rod a "lower profile" (?), but what other advantages by going that route do you see using the smaller 16H as the Stripper guide (I think its called) ? I am all for it mind you, just want to understand as much as I can.

Thanks Norm!

Mike

The KR GPS software recommends guide sizes based on information you supply. It's recommending the 20 because of a combination of three things, reel size, line size, and line type. If you put in a 3000 series reel, the GPS is suggesting a 20 over a 16 because of the diameter of the reel's spool. If you put in a heavier line, say 10 - 14# mono, the software is suggesting a 20 over a 16 because of the stiffness of the line. 10 - 15# braid most likely would call for a 16 over a 20 because braid is more supple than mono.

Mike,
Here is the original KR concept video that made me rethink everything I was doing with rods. It is not in English but you will get the idea that is conveyed. Basically you are trying to keep the line off the rod because that slows the line down (does not cast as far). You are also trying to keep the line straight by using rapid reduction in the guide ring sizes. Pay attention to the size rings used in the video that do this. The other thing that will help keep the line off the blank is the guide height, the KL-H (H=High) is great for this. Rapid reduction in the ring size from a 20 mm ring to a 10 or a 12 mm then a 5 mm or 4 mm the rest of the way. Also more running guides facilitate this; keep the line straight and reduce the wave as much as possible. Most rods that you have ever fished and that were made in the past were made incorrectly. You might as well start using micro guides in the 5 and 4 mm sizes now. It will be a learning curve but you will be better off for it.
[www.youtube.com]

Go to page 9 of the Fuji catalog for the set/size recommendations if you already have not. Catalog can be downloaded from the Anglers Resource site in the left margin.

First, let me say I agree almost 100% with Norman. All I use are Fuji guides and I love their style, performance, and reliability. Plus lots of options in frames and rings. The new Fazlite rings with corrosion control frames are great guides at a great price. Order an extra running guide just in case. If you were building a salt rod I would recommend something different, like the slim SiC guides.

Tall guides better align with the reels, and that is part of the advantage of KLH guides. Better casting performance. The only disadvantage is with carrying them in rod tubes, but there is a nice tube available in whawt I'll call a tri-roundular shape, almost a triangle, and it handles even taller guides very well.

If you think you might want to use heavier line than 15 braid or 8 mono, go with the set starting with the 20 size ring. Will work fine at a minimal weight add. You won't feel it. But I never go higher than 15/8 on a rod like yours, so I use the set starting with the 16 there. As Norman recommended. For a heavier rod for using with tubes, I go with the 20.

Trying to delete a double post. ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2019 06:33PM by Michael Danek.

Hi Michael,

Thank you! I really appreciate the help. I am actually trying to keep the reel size at 2500 or less I would prefer a 1500 for this rod. Furthermore, I do not want to use anything heavier than 8LB test mono. With that said, I will go with the 16 - now things are starting to make more sense!

Thanks again Michael!

Mike

Thanks Lance, will certainly take a look at the video!!

Best regards,

Mike

Thank you David, with all this new information, it is making a lot more sense to me now.

Thank you for the way you explained that for me.

Best regards,

Mike

What parameters did you put in the KR GPS? For a 1000 to 3000 series reel with 4 -10 lb test mono or up to 20 lb test braid, the KRGPS will not recommend a size 25 H reduction train guides, it would only recommend the size 20H reduction train if you are using a larger reel or heavier line. If you are using a larger reel and/or heavier line then go ahead and use the 20H based reduction train, it will not hurt anything and will give a little more versatility if you change reel and/or line size. Basically, A simple answer to your question is, you do not need a larger reduction guide train for a light powered rod, it just adds unnecessary weight and robs your rod of performance. The size 16H based reduction train will be lighter, and this will make the rod more response. It will also perform and cast great. On all my ultra light, light, and some medium power rods I use the 16H based reduction train. On most of my medium to heavy freshwater spin rods I will use the 20H based reduction train. On freshwater rods I never use the 25H based reduction train. That is reserved for longer and heavier powered saltwater rods which use larger reels and heavier line. In fact, the KL25H based reduction train can be used on surf rods with very good results. The KL16H is a tall guide, it about the same height or taller than the KL25, KW25, SV/ LV25, and is about the same height as the Y20 guide, and it is lighter than all of them. If you need more information ask more questions or email me.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2019 06:44PM by Norman Miller.

Mike
My choice of Fuji guides for a light panfish spinning rod would be the "Y" type for the reduction guides, and the "L" type for the running guides. I would top the rod with a "F" or "LG" type of tip top. I have used the alconite rings and and have not had a single problem with them. I have built approximately 25 of my 45 rod builds using these guides (or similar ones by other manufacturers) using the "27X" guide layout method and they work beautifully. I don't use the KL or KL-H guides unless I'm building a larger spinning rod meant to be used braided line. Just my 2cents worth!
Rog

add my 2 cents to Rogers 2 cents..that makes 4 cents..adding up..lol.

I haven't built a lot of spinning rods, only 4 thus far, but I have used a lot of spinning rods over the years. All of the spinning rods I've used prior to building my own rods used guide train layouts other than a KR concept guide train. The 4 spinning rods I've built were all built using KR concept guide trains based on the numbers that the KR GPS software recommended, and every one of those rods cast much better than any previous spinning rod I have used.

IMO, the KR concept blows any other spinning rod guide train out of the water when it comes to casting performance. It's really not even close. And they are so simple to do, I can't see why anyone would go with something different.

As far as guide sizes go, as Norman said, if you are using light line or suppler line, the 16 is going to work for you. But...... as he said, going with the reduction train of 20 H , 10 H, and 5.5M, won't cost you much in weight, and will add versatility to the rod. If you were ever to want to use fluorocarbon line for your main line, you're going to want to go with the 20,10, 5.5 reduction guide train.

I say that because I use fluorocarbon line as the main line on my spinning gear with said guide sizes, and they perform beautifully !!! There is one problem with a KR concept guide train on a spinning rod. And it is that once you use a rod that has a KR concept guide train on it, you'll want all of your spinning rods to have KR concept guide trains. Lucky for you you're a rod builder and can do the conversion yourself. Otherwise it could get expensive lol

...and the students become the masters.

I can retire.