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Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Larry Berkovsky (---.kngwcmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: May 31, 2019 03:01PM

Gents, finished a build for myself about a month ago. Blank is a Rainshadow Immortal P70M. I love the blank for throwing plastic tails and swim bait jigs w/ braid and Curado. So here’s the deal. Wade fished with it yesterday down on the Tx coast. Lots of redfish in the water. What I noticed was that I had several hookups where the red fought for a while then got off. I thought that this was strange considering past experience. Then got to wondering if the blank is a little under powered for hard setting the hook on a slot red with their tough mouth. The fish that I did land really gave the rod a real workout but w/ no concerns. My CCS measurements on the blank were ERN 14.1 / AA 70 deg which is a little less than some of the rods I’ve used in the past when wade fishing with for trout/reds. Am I over thinking this or is this why we call it fishing, and not catching fish? Thoughts?

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: May 31, 2019 04:40PM

I have no experience with that blank, or red fish, but I do have experience losing fish lol

It's hard to say what could be going on. Could be dull hooks. Could be the bait wading up around the hook and blocking some of the gap. Could be the fish is really chomping down on the bait and you aren't getting a lot of hook movement. It's really tough to tell. Some times losing fish comes down to improper rod for the bait being used, or the line being used combined with the bait being used. Really tough to say.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 31, 2019 06:54PM

if it,s frequent, it,s usually a dull hook..

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 01, 2019 12:27PM

For a cheap, quick, and effective cure for your problem buy a hook hone, carry it with you when fishing, and frequently test to see if your hook point slides or "sticks" when you move it along your thumbnail. If it doesn't "stick" three or four strokes of the hook hone [looks like a small pen] will have you cranking them in.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 01, 2019 12:28PM

oops!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2019 12:30PM by Phil Ewanicki.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Larry Berkovsky (---.kngwcmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 12:54PM

Yes, jig heads were right out of the package. Sharp but not razor like. Tormented by the over-thinking and the ones that got away. The rod is saved! Thanks guys.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 04:16PM

Larry,
I keep about 10 of these sharpeners on the boat at all times.

One in the pocket of every fisherperson on board and a couple in every tackle box.

Before any hook - in a single configuration or a treble configuration is tied on a line, the hook is checked to be laser sharp. If it is not laser sharp, the hook - including all three barbs on a treble hook - is make sharp by using the 3 angle sharpening technique.

i.e. A triangle is formed on the point of the hook with the sharpener always moving toward the point.
Also, 2- edges on the top surface of the hook and a 3rd edge on the underside of the hook point.

------------
From eze-lap:
To Sharpen a Hook:

1. Grasp the point of the hook between forefinger and thumb as if to squeeze the point.

2. Force the EZE-LAP between your thumb and finger so it contacts the point or barb. Your thumb and finger act as a sharpening guide to achieve the right angle.

3. Test the point on you thumbnail. If it skids on your nail under very low pressure, sharpen it again. Be very careful not to puncture your nail with the ultra-sharp point EZE-LAP will give your hook.

The EZE-LAP Model “S” pocket clip tool has a small flat area with a groove on the back of the sharpener. A hook is sharpened by rubbing the point back and forth in this groove, with the final finishing strokes made into the point.

-----------------
[www.fishandboat.com]

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 04:20PM

Larry,
Also be aware that when you are using the p70M, that you are using a popping rod blank.
I am not familiar with that particular blank, but normally popping rods are nice stout blanks for working big fish, but they also have a unique softer tip that favors the use of casting life delicate bait like shrimp and to also work popping corks. Hence the P label on the blank.

If this blank does have a softer tip, then, it is often to your advantage if fishing for fish with a hard jaw that the use of a non stretch line like braid works to your advantage. But, the non stretch character of braid works to your disadvantage if casting live bait like shrimp and octopus for big fish.

As with any aspect to fishing - things are a compromise.

Keep a sharp hook, a strong arm for setting the hook and you will lose few fish.

Be safe

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 08:38PM

I prefer the Luhr-Jensen hook file, over the Ez Lap and others I've tried.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 08:46PM

I am one who ordered the heaviest model in the Immortal line of popping blanks last year and returned it as i found it much much less stout than i had anticipated but i'm in the extreme minority as most love them . As far as hooks , most people do not know how to correctly sharpen hooks and thats because there are so many different types of hook points out there and unless you know what kind of point you're dealing with there is no one way to approach it . Not being familiar with the type of point you're dealing with typically causes anglers to remove a portion of material that causes the hook point to fold over itself making things worse.

A few strokes of a file or stone will make the hook point feel sticky sharp so the angler thinks it's good to go not realizing they greatly weakened the point and all it takes is a hard hook set to reveal itself . I always carried a loop magnifier to make sure i knew what type of hook point i was dealing with before attempting to sharpen it. Many have switched to chemically sharpened hooks, ( Cone point) as they're sticky sharp out of the package and once dull they're meant to be discarded not resharpened but many do sharpen them regardless but those types of points can never be honed to achieve the same sticky sharpness that they have coming straight out of the package. Sharp enough ..yes, as sharp as a new chemically sharpened hook.....nope.

Many top anglers carry various grits of sandpaper because it works exceptionally well at honing hook points compared to a file or stone , contours better for precision sharpening .


Certain types of large offshore hooks are an entirely different story .

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 01, 2019 09:31PM

The medical profession uses trocar points for a number of applications. If it's sharp enough for surgeons it's sharp enough for me. I would no more throw away a hook that got dull than I would throw away a knife that got dull. Once you get the hang of maintaining a triangular (trocar) point they are easy and quick to sharpen, can be sharpened many times, and the three cutting edges of the trocar combined with the point produce excellent penetration.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 01, 2019 10:27PM

Unless knives were sold in ten packs for four bucks and change i wouldn't throw them out either but they're not . Like i said you can do whatever you want but chemically sharpened hooks are NOT meant to be sharpened it's not possible to achieve a better point than how they come from the factory , doesn't mean people listen and follow that advice.

An Eagle Claw Trokar is NOT a simple tri point design it has very precise angles & a flared upper that forms the point , sure you can sharpen it but it will never be as sharp as it was new out of the package , you might think it is but it's not . Lots of different types of points based on the fish being sought out there.

If you're going to sharpen hooks don't just assume it's sharp if catching your fingernail , apply downward force on the tip of the hook and then try the fingernail technique over again , in many instances the point will no longer catch the fingernail it will slide off because the point folded over itself when you applied downward force. This is very very difficult to spot by just looking at the hook point , a magnifier will reveal it.

As they say to each their own .

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 02, 2019 11:23AM

herb: Just so. If you sharpen a hook point at an overly shallow angle the hook point will easily bend if the hook's made of soft, low Rockwell-Number steel, or a long, thin hook point will easily snap off if the hook is made of hard, high Rockwell-Number steel. Still, it seems a shame that our throw-away society has invaded fly-fishing. Some of my flies are like old friends. I hate losing them and would certainly not throw them away when they became dull.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Larry Berkovsky (---.mobile.att.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 11:54AM

Herb, back to your comment about being less stout. If you’re referring to the P70 then I’d have to agree w you. Hence the reason for this post in the first place. I find that it gets pretty loaded up if I tie a weighted cork, a split shot and a med size live shrimp on it. Not sure why RS calls it popping rod. There are better blanks for this application IMO. But it slings 0.3 - 0.4 oz jigs and tails real well. And slot reds give it a workout. Will still be my “go to” wading blank. Continued thanx for all the discussion.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 02, 2019 02:00PM

Circle hooks could be your solution.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 03:39PM

Larry,
The reason that this style rod is called a popping rod is for two reason.

Often, folks use a popping cork to dance the bait on the water.

Also, with the light tip, the use of tender live bait is possible without whipping off the bait on a cast.

With a stiff tip, the tip velocity is so great on a cast that a tender bait goes one way and the hook goes another way.

Best wishes.

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 03:46PM


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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 04:52PM

Phil Ewanicki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herb: Just so. If you sharpen a hook point at an
> overly shallow angle the hook point will easily
> bend if the hook's made of soft, low
> Rockwell-Number steel, or a long, thin hook point
> will easily snap off if the hook is made of hard,
> high Rockwell-Number steel. Still, it seems a
> shame that our throw-away society has invaded
> fly-fishing. Some of my flies are like old
> friends. I hate losing them and would certainly
> not throw them away when they became dull.



No doubt about it Phil , some manufacturers are known for hooks that are overly brittle that have little if any give, while incredibly sharp many styles do have a tendency to snap if excess pressure is applied and then some manufacturers have hooks that have more give and tend to be more durable if subjected to the same stress level . I understand completely about hooks attached to flies or jigheads , those types will obviously not be tossed if they get dull .

Thanks for your comments , always well thought out & enjoyable to read .

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 05:01PM

Larry Berkovsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Herb, back to your comment about being less stout.
> If you’re referring to the P70 then I’d have
> to agree w you. Hence the reason for this post in
> the first place. I find that it gets pretty
> loaded up if I tie a weighted cork, a split shot
> and a med size live shrimp on it. Not sure why RS
> calls it popping rod. There are better blanks
> for this application IMO. But it slings 0.3 - 0.4
> oz jigs and tails real well. And slot reds give
> it a workout. Will still be my “go to” wading
> blank. Continued thanx for all the discussion.



I know very well the Immortal line and Batson blanks in general are held in high regard for good reason , my comment was strictly about what i have typically fished over the years and what i was very used to , upon receiving my first Rainshadow blank i found it to be a very different beast altogether especially how thin it was compared to everything else i have ever fished . I was convinced it was a light freshwater trout rod , the model i had was the IMMP76MH .

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Re: Blank Feedback - IMM P70M
Posted by: Alex Weissman (---.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 08:44PM

I fish a couple of Immortal blanks and love them. I also carry a Leatherman multi tool with a diamond file that I use whenever a hook needs it.

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