I
nternet gathering place for custom rod builders
  • Custom Rod Builders - This message board is provided for your use by the sponsors listed on the left side of the page. Feel free to post any question, answers or topics related in any way to custom building. When purchasing products please remember those who sponsor this board.

  • Manufacturers and Vendors - Only board sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on the board. You may become a sponsor for a nominal fee. It is the sponsor fees that pay for this message board.

  • Rules - Rod building is a decent and rewarding craft. Those who participate in it are assumed to be civilized individuals who are kind and considerate in their dealings with others. Please respond to others in the same fashion in which you would like to be responded to. Registration IS NOW required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting. Posts which are inflammatory, insulting, or that fail to include a proper name and email address will be removed and the persons responsible will be barred from further participation.

    Registration is now required in order to post. You must include your actual First and Last name and a correct email address when registering or posting.
SPONSORS

ICRBE 2020
EXPO ON FACEBOOK
CCS Database
Int. Custom Rod Symbol
Common Cents Info
American Tackle
Angler’s Roost
Anglers Rsrc - Fuji
Anglers Workshop
BatsonRainshadowALPS
BRC Rods
Bingham Enterprises
CRB
Cork4Us
HNL Rod Blanks–CTS
CTS New Zealand
Custom Fly Grips LLC
Decal Connection
Flex Coat Co.
Get Bit Outdoors
Hitena USA
HYDRA
Janns Netcraft
Mickels Custom Rods
Mudhole Custom Tackle
MHX Rod Blanks
North Fork Composites
Pacific Bay
ProProducts
Reelseatblanks.com
Renzetti Inc.
Rougarou Rods
Rodgeeks
RodMaker Magazine
RodMaker Magazine Blog
Schneiders Rod Shop
SeaGuide Corp.
Tackleworks
The Rod Room
Trondak U-40
Utmost Enterprises
VisualWRAP/VisualWEAVE
ZipCast

Pages: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 30, 2019 02:26PM

Donald R Campbell:

" He said the grip was so slippery that he almost threw his rod, (with a very pricey Shamano reel), into the water when casting"



Every time i see a carbon fiber grip i always think of how ridiculously slippery they look especially glossy coated ones but when i asked others about it on this very forum every single response , no joke, i'm talking EVERY response i received were people telling me they're not slippery in any way shape or form . Hopefully that customer you had is the only one who ever mentioned this being an issue because i would much prefer my new rod & reel to stay in my hands if possible.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 30, 2019 02:47PM

And there is a lot more to how "grippy" a handle or grip is than just the surface. How many people have ever wondered why beverage glasses are tapered from top (larger) to bottom (smaller)? And it has nothing to do with slipperiness. It does, however, play a large role in proper fishing rod handle and grip ergonomics.


..................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: May 30, 2019 02:52PM

I completely agree with Tom, water alone does not make a top coated smooth to the touch glass like finished carbon fiber grip, slippery. An oily substance makes it a completely different matter. Water and an oily substance and you might want to tie a string to your rod so if you drop it in the water, you'll be able to get your rod and your expensive reel back.

Question? If your hands are dry and you're having trouble gripping a smooth surface, have you ever spit on your hands to moisten them before trying to grip the object again? Whenever I have done that, my grip on the smooth surface increases. I have several rods with carbon fiber grips, with one of them being one that I top coated with epoxy and Permagloss. It is as smooth as glass. I have fished that rod in heavy rain on a couple of occasions, and never felt in jeopardy of loosing my grip on it. But as I said above.... add an oily substance on the handle or your hands, and it's a different story.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 30, 2019 03:04PM

That's the added component, and it will also make EVA and cork grips slippery as well. Fish slime, is the #1 culprit. However, most fishermen will rinse and/or wipe their hands from such slime rather than have it smeared all over their grips and reels. Those that don't are apt to occasionally lose rods, regardless of the material the grip is made from. Even then, however, grip shape ultimately plays the major role in how easy or hard it is to hang onto a grip or handle in any situation. And many commercially made grips and handles are simply not ergonomically correct. There are correct and incorrect fishing rod handle shapes.

..............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: May 30, 2019 04:21PM

gripping a flocked grip is even better the wetter..lol.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 30, 2019 07:01PM

The upcoming issue of RodMaker, Volume 22 #3, has an outstanding article by Ben on perhaps the simplest flocking method yet devised. Look for it towards the middle to end of June.

....................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Bill Batson (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 31, 2019 02:46PM

Try the Batson Forecast carbon fiber grips>> the finest carbon grip in the industry>>fit and finish like no other..
Be on the lookout for new Carbon products coming soon.
Contact a Batson Dealer near you..

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 31, 2019 03:57PM

I am going to give Don Campbell's client the benefit of the doubt , i'm not willing to assume that he most likely had some type of slippery substance or fish slime on his hands OR the grip was not ergonomically correct . Now, even though i removed my Winn grips on my rods a few weeks ago to go back to my favorite shrink X grip handles, ( No, not the cheesy X pattern shrink) lets talk about Winn Grips for a moment and what makes them so popular . The biggest reason Winn grips are so popular imo is because regardless of it's shape / ergonomics it's extremely sticky stuff , same with cork tape , Plasti Dip liquid rubber makes a grip extremely tacky and it doesn't matter if the grip is ergonomically correct or not.

I fished only freshwater from 7 years old to around 16 fishing many types of rods with different handles , then from 17 to my early 30's it was all offshore & overnight Hudson Canyon trips assisting my father , not a fan but been there done that , my point is i fished all types of commercially made rods with different handle materials . I can not recall a single instance of losing my grip on any rod i ever fished but none of the grips were super hard with a gloss surface either . I have rods with grips that are NOT naturally tacky that i fish with and never experienced slippage but i would never refer to them as the perfect grip material and they're not shaped in a specific way either .

What exactly makes a grip NOT ergonomically correct if it fits what the angler does with no issues , Tom stated many commercially made grips and handles are simply not ergonomically correct , maybe so but i never had a problem with any of them .


Sure you can make a grip that has a smaller diameter starting at the butt and have the grip widen as it progresses upward to meet the bottom of the reel seat but that shouldn't be necessary if the grip has an inherent tackiness to it .

Look, i see great benefits in the use of carbon fiber for grips , it's extremely lightweight and nothing is better at transmitting vibration and i know how some people have invested enormous amounts of time , money and sweat for being at the forefront of the carbon fiber grip movement . Now, i think my uncertainty about it is related to application , i never had any interest in bass fishing at all , i still don't . I also don't fly fish , my views on carbon fiber grips relates to how good a choice it could be on a long straight surf rod butt or a handle material for an offshore rod for long drawn out battles on bigeye tuna so it's mostly application related.

Remember, grip and handle stuff is 100% subjective ( Except carbon fiber grips having the highest stiffness to weight factor which is extremely desirable in a fishing rod handle) but a persons comfort is 100% subjective so despite the large majority loving the comfort factor there will be some who think differently

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: May 31, 2019 05:03PM

Herb, I agree as far as the comfort of a grip being different for different people. I've done the carbon fiber grip thing purely for the cool factor, They look cool. Personally, unless it's a fore grip, I'm not one that puts a lot of stock in a grips ability to transmit vibrations. Actually I could care less how much vibration a grip transmits. I don't hold the grip when I am working a bait, and very little of my hand is in contact with the rear grip. On a casting rod I palm the reel and all of my fingers minus the thumb are on the reel seat. On a spinning rod I'm holding the reel seat. Different story if I am using two hands to make long casts with a crankbait or Carolina rig, but why would I care how sensitive a grip is while casting those type of baits.

For me a rear grip is almost entirely for aesthetic value, and for weight behind the reel seat. Weight behind the reel seat helps balance a rod and reel combination, and is the reason I posted when I did in my first post to this thread.

And if the person Don referenced found carbon grips to be slippery, who am I to say he didn't? From my experience they aren't slippery in the least, As far as the comfort factor goes, I prefer EVA over any other handle material and would probably consider cork more comfortable than a carbon fiber grip. But neither of them look as cool as carbon fiber. Especially carbon fiber that has that smooth as glass finish. It really adds a wow factor to a build.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 31, 2019 05:18PM

Proper grip ergonomics is not entirely, if at all, subjective. The research that was used for the RodMaker article was taken from mounds of tests and data gathered in the late 1940's and early 1950's by the U.S. Military to determine the best shapes and surfaces for the bio-mechanics of the human hand and how it interfaces with various shapes and surfaces. You can get by with anything, but having the optimum diameter, shape and surface make a huge difference in terms of energy transfer, muscle fatigue, ease of retention, etc. This is a science that more rod builders need to consider if they truly want to build better rods than what is available off the shelf.

...............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 31, 2019 06:05PM

Proper diameter, shape and surface is extremely subjective imo , i would love to see differences that could be measured with what the Military deem's proper on a handle and what a specific individual deems is the most comfortable and efficient feeling for him/ her . Afterward telling that specific individual that the Military says their personal favorite choice is ergonomically incorrect based on their specific research .

I would love to see this "Huge difference" you speak of especially energy transfer . Not saying it's incorrect but i have serious doubts . I don't think i ever heard of somebody complain that their personal grips didn't allow maximum energy transfer, caused muscle fatigue and were hard to hold onto . Every individual ends up with a specific grip in shape and surface based on how that grip feels to them , performs for them , it's appearance and comfort to them , even if it's judged to be improper by people who have never done testing with fishing grips being the main focus of that testing .

I would love to have an ergonomically correct grip sent to me and i'll put it through the wringer and if i notice a difference i have no problem at all saying so , i don't disagree with Tom i'm just not completely sold but maybe i will be someday . Not a big deal

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 31, 2019 08:12PM

No, the "proper" diameter, shape and size are not the least bit subjective. The data is there to prove how much force can be generated with the least amount of effort, over the longest duration. We're not talking about how something feels - we're talking about bio-mechanics and how to derive the most force from the least amount of effort over the longest period of time.

Everything being relative, if you have only used a grip made from a brick, you may naturally assume that it is the best material to use (and provides maximum energy transfer) until you try something that is better. After all, until you use something better, you have nothing to compare it to.

Grips are grips. Fishing rods are tools. The human hand is a human hand. The proper ergonomic shape for the human hand for any given required task does not care if the task involves a fishing rod, an aircraft control or a rake.

And one thing I'm most proud about concerning the technical articles in RodMaker is that I've never published theories - Only facts based on research, data and results.

..............

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 06:04PM

I agree with Tom. And make two comments: 1. Cork is not soft. It does not deflect when gripped. 2. Cork with fish slime on it is very slippery. I think most any surface with fish slime on it would be slippery.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 06:39PM

If you are fishing in the rain or with a slimy grip, just wear a glove on your casting hand and you will not have a rod slip out of your gloved hand. Especially if you use a knit glove with a gritty surface for an absolute non slip grip.

By the way, there is really little excuse for fish slime on a rod grip. There is a handy item called a fishing towel to keep the grip clean, in the same way that golfers use their towel to clean their grips as well as their club heads.

Good luck



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2019 06:41PM by roger wilson.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 02, 2019 06:58PM

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with Tom. And make two comments: 1. Cork
> is not soft. It does not deflect when gripped.
> 2. Cork with fish slime on it is very slippery.
> I think most any surface with fish slime on it
> would be slippery.


You don't realize just how soft cork is until you fish with a grip that is more rigid than cork. check the durometer hardness rating for cork.

...................

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 02, 2019 07:09PM

I was going to comment on how soft and spongy cork can be especially low grade cork but Tom beat me to it . Nobody knows if Don's client had slippage issues due to fish slime so i'm not going to automatically assume that was the case but i think everybody agrees that there are a variety of things that could make any grip super slippery .

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Robert A. Guist (---.triad.rr.com)
Date: June 02, 2019 07:42PM

Hello All.

Could it be the fried chicken he has been eating for lunch???



Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines

and maybe a tighter grip!!!

Bob,

New Bern, NC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2019 10:47AM by Robert A. Guist.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Rod Siemens (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: June 04, 2019 06:44PM

OK you CF guru's. I have built a couple spinning rods with CF grips on them and I like them. I have left them exactly the way they come from the manufacturer but am interested in the permagloss or other clear finish over the CF. Do you have to sand them first or just lay the finish right over the cf? They are not rael smooth - a little texture to them as you probably know. I don't have a 200rpm lathe or wrapper as shown in the videos, is nine RPM fast enough? What works best, Permagloss or sometjhing like Pro Kote? One coat or two? Etc. Any tips or info from the guys that have done this would be appreciated!

Thanks

Rod

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Carbon Fiber grips comfort
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 04, 2019 06:50PM

Check the RodMaker Magazine Youtube Channel for a good video process on finishing them.

PermaGloss is very thin and cannot easily be used as a sealer or filler. So if your grips aren't smooth you'll need to sand them, or you can apply a coat of finish epoxy and then sand that down smooth (you may get into the carbon skin in places - don't worry, that's okay).

Or maybe you don't want them smooth. Maybe just want to add PG to brighten them. Either way is up to you.

..............

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Webmaster