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Rod Finish question
Posted by: Mike V (---.haywd2.sfba.home.com)
Date: November 21, 2001 07:41PM

Approximately how many rods will the 4 oz. bottles of UV-40 LS Supreme cover?

Thanks

Mike

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Rich Garbowski (---.voyageur.ca)
Date: November 21, 2001 08:28PM

Mike,
That's a good question. According to Ralph O'Quinn's recommendation on mixing 3 cc's each of the resin and hardner, and say you're using two coats, that means approximately 12 cc's total
(or as Ralph mentioned approximately 80 cents per mix X 2 = approximately $1.60 worth per rod, sound right?). If you figure approximately 30 cc's per ounce, I would most closely guess you should be able to finish (30 cc's x 4 oz = 120 oz. divide by 12 or 10 applications x 2 applications per rod = 5), sounds about right .

The answer is.... 5 rods. Assuming they are 'average' with 'average' number of guides.

Anyone, correct me if your figures come up with a better answer.
And this is with the 2 x 2 oz. size kit of 4 oz. total mix.

note: best to use the mixing syringes for accurate measurements.

hope my arithmetic is right?

Rich
Richard's Rod & Reel

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: William (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: November 21, 2001 09:26PM

I get at least 5 rods out of that size kit. I always mix the full 3cc's syringeful and get good results. Finish is really not very expensive when you realize how many rods you do. I figure I end up with maybe a buck or two per rod in the finish. That's really not very much for something that is going to protect the wraps for many years.

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Ralph O'Quinn (---.pstbbs.com)
Date: November 21, 2001 11:12PM

Rich
I realize there is a difference between an american mile and a Canadien Kilometer. There is also quite a substantial difference between the value of an American and a Canadien dollar. But I had no idea there is so much difference between the American cc and the Canadian cc. Try this on for size --- this is strictly american arithmetic you know It will probably look much different north of latitude 54 -40.

A one ounce bottle contains 30 cc that amounts to 10 batches of 3cc each. Each batch of 3cc of resin and 3cc of hardener is 6cc of mixed resin. This is plenty of resin to do two fly rods, two large fresh water spinning rods, or two mooching rods. That amounts to 20 rods per kit. This from the one ounce bottles. Mike V is asking about the 4 oz bottles. using american arithmetic we multiply the above figures X 4 and that amounts to some 80 rods per kit.
After we allow for spillage and wastage, we really only get about 9 batches per 1 ounce kit, so about 18 rods per kit is more realisteak We are talking about coating each guide wrap with one flood coat of resin, not coating the entire blank with the resin.
The answer to Mike's question, at least 16 to 18 rods from a one ounce kit and 4 times that from a 4 ounce kit. If you are doing rods where two coats are necessary, then cut those figures in half.
Ralph

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Mike VanBuskirk (---.haywd2.sfba.home.com)
Date: November 22, 2001 12:43AM

Thanks Ralph. I had a good laugh out of that one.
I wasn't concerned about the price of these resins, I was just curious as to how much was used per rod since I am new to this.

Mike

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Rich Garbowski (---.voyageur.ca)
Date: November 22, 2001 01:57AM

Ralph,
Must have mixed in some Canadian whiskey while doing the calculations. At least I got the 30 cc's to the ounce part right from my lab day memories.

Forgive me Ralph, but please be fair to this poor halftimer's perceptions about walking a kilometer in my shoes and switching to the American mile after crossing the border. At least I was on the right track to somewhere. I'll assure you of one thing, the Canadian C.C. is the same as my book learin' in my pre-halftimer's school days in the good ole U.S.A.

What this canadian brain didn't take into account that I had 3 rods in front of me to be doing in the same batch. Yes. I apologize for all that waste after only applying to the one rod and leaving the other 2 or 3 rods which I haven't wrapped yet. I concede to your expertise. After all you're the inventor of the lovely product, and no way will I argue with that, no matter which math is being used. But, let's say even with some degree of halftimer's I only did one rod with your recommended 3 + 3 mixture and the rest sadly disposed of, That would be 6 cc's per the one rod (with the dumb waste, because only one rod is in front of me) I believe we divide the american 16 or 18 rods by the canadian number 3 (to take into account the other 2 rods that were not having the finish applied to) , I am coming up with something like 5 to 6 Can-Am rods as I stupidly mentioned.

Well, maybe take a sip of the Canadian whiskey and sharpen the american pencil again. Let' see. ..mix 3 cc's plus 3 cc's , or wait maybe I'll deviate and just mix 1 cc and 1 cc and do one rod with this. NO, (hand slap), I distinctly remember your scolding, Ralph...The recommendation clearly is to mix 3 cc's of hardner with 3 cc's of resin.
Ahhh?? Care to join me with a shot of American Jack Daniels?

In any case, forgive me Ralph. You win.

Bless you with the LS Supreme. At least we convinced you to blend the perfect viscosity. Now, is viscosity in Canadian or American metric?

Ralph, I love you and U-40 and it's perfect on my Canadian built Custom Rods. They catch fish, no matter which side of the border it swims. Now, does that fish swim for miles or kilometers? Damn, you really got me bonkered now. I believe this could turn into a complete fulltimer's bout of confusion for me. See what you've done?

Rich

p.s. Kidding aside. You all listen to Ralph. I only can be humbled by his knowledge and expertise in rod repair and epoxies. bottoms up!

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Ralph O'Quinn (---.pstbbs.com)
Date: November 22, 2001 05:09AM

Rich
I'm not much of a Jack Daniels fan (Bourbon ugh) Make that a single malt Scotch - Glenlivit - and your'e on.
Ralph

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (---.dialinx.net)
Date: November 22, 2001 08:48AM

I have known many rod builders who risk an improper mix due to mixing only the smallest of amounts of each epoxy component. Most will tell you they don't like to waste finish, or that they don't want to spend any more than they have to.

Realizing that many rod builders can and do get away with mixing very small batches, many more do not. Tacky finish that refuses to set up is one very common problem and is often the result of a poor mix ratio when someone decided to mix a small batch so they wouldn't waste any "expensive" finish. I have always questioned this type of economics for the mainstream. Even if you are building a rod with fairly inexpensive components, let's say under a 100 bucks, the $2 (if that even) or so that you might actually be spending on a 6cc batch of finish is just a drop in the bucket compared to your overall cost. Now factor in the supposed savings of mixing only half as much against having to recoat or completely rewrap the rod because the mix didn't set up properly.

Epoxy rod finish is one of the better bargains in rod building today. If it cost me $10 per rod for a finish job, I'd gladly pay it to know that I'm going to get a good job the first time, every time. I've gotten a bit off the original subject, but I see so many finish jobs come out badly because somebody decided to be thrifty I thought I'd throw this in. Again, yes I know many mix up just 1 or 2 cc's and get by with it, but many do not.

............................

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Re: Rod Finish question
Posted by: Rich Garbowski (---.voyageur.ca)
Date: November 22, 2001 09:47AM

Hey Ralph,
I'm really not much of a boozer, but now you got me wondering if maybe 1:1 mix of Jack Daniels to Glenlivit should be in order at this time. Damn, you'll soon have me reaching for the Seagram's, and I hardly touch the stuff.
Now, should we use a syringe to get the mixture right?

I think we better steer way clear of any fishing rods while doing this.

All the best, Ralph. I've learned more from you than you might imagine.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Rich
Richard's Rod & Reel

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