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ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: James Taylor (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 15, 2019 11:15AM

We are extremely excited to announce that the ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are in stock and ready for action.

We spent the last two years adapting the same popular features of our ALPS stainless steel HXN guides into new titanium frames. That coveted HXN heavy platform is now lighter, stronger and corrosion free.

You will not find another comparable titanium guide in the Extra Heavy Saltwater Class. These guides are the new leaders in the market!

Here is a video spotlight: [youtu.be]

Go here for more details on sizes and weights: [alpsforecast.com]

James Taylor
Batson Enterprises
BatsonEnterprises.com | RainShadowRodBlanks.com | ALPSForeCast.com | Build2Fish.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 02:28PM by James Taylor.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Rick Hall (---.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 11:34AM

100% titanium?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2019 12:06PM by Rick Hall.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Geoff Staples (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 15, 2019 01:28PM

Hi Rick,
These new TI HXN models do feature solid titanium frames, not coated SS316 or 304 steel. All the Alps frames sold by Batson that have part numbers beginning with "TI" have solid titanium frames making them the best choice for saltwater use. Those guides and tip tops beginning with XTC have SS316 steel frames with the TiChrome PVD coating. I hope this helps.

Geoff Staples
www.batsonenterprises.com

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 01:47PM

I think Rick was meaning are they really 100% titanium or a titanium alloy .

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Geoff Staples (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 15, 2019 02:43PM

I see. I'm not really at liberty to discuss the specific titanium type used with competitors on an open forum. However, I am aware of the concerns that more knowledgeable rod builders may have about unalloyed Ti grades and rigidity problems. I inspected these guides personally, and I can assure you that these guides are NOT soft. They're definitely what you'd expect from Alps.

Geoff Staples
www.batsonenterprises.com

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 03:01PM

Actually not concerned at all , i love ALPS stuff it's as good as anything out there regardless of price . Every guide on the market that claims titanium is in actuality a titanium alloy which is perfectly normal , i never meant Ti coatings etc... thats a totally different thing , your point is that these new guides are full blown titanium and NOT a coating , all is understood .

I'm sure they will be exceptionally popular and they also look great , very well done by ALPS.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 09:52PM

Pure titanium is a relatively soft metal without a lot of tensile strength, and needs to be alloyed to gain strength and hardness, along with heat treatment. Even highly refined titanium contains impurities, so 100% pure titanium is not really available. Therefore all titanium fishing guides are an alloy, and the type of alloy used may be proprietary.. One of the most common titaniumalloy contains both aluminum and vanadium. The titanium alloy used for the Rec recoil guides is called nitinol which is mix of of both nickel and titanium. Different titanium alloys have different properties.
No one uses pure titanium.
Norm

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 10:06PM

The fact that nobody uses 100% pure titanium is i believe what Rick Halls point was .

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 15, 2019 10:39PM

I don’t think so. There are also titanium coated steel guides which are not not a solid titanium alloy but rather titanium alloy coated steel. Some companies may call theses coated guides titanium, although they really are not. Rick sells SeaGuide products and their titanium guides are a titanium alloy, He know that all guides referred as solid titanium are an alloy but they are generically called titanium guides, similar to steel which is an alloy of iron, There are a number of steel alloys, but they are all genetically called steel. The Fuji, PacBay, American Tackle, Alps , SeaGuide and other titanium guides are all an alloy but they are referred as solid titanium. The different guide manufacturers may or may not use the same titanium alloy..I think that some of these titanium alloys may be proprietary.
Norm

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 12:49AM

Missed the point Norm , James Taylor referred to and specifically said "The new ALPS 100% titanium frames " thats when Rick Hall posted the words (100% titanium) ? because Rick knows all titanium frames are an alloy and NOT 100% solid titanium . Now regarding titanium coatings, they have been around forever and are used on countless guides by many manufacturers , thats not what we're talking about . This was about how manufacturers should avoid the term 100% titanium and just refer to their titanium guides as titanium whether they're proprietary or not , the fact that a manufacturer mentions that his company's titanium frames are proprietary meaning his company uses different alloys in the manufacturing of their titanium guides than a competitor DOES NOT make them 100% solid titanium they're all still an alloy .


This board has had a lot of back and forth about how marketing can be deceiving to some anglers , part of tackling that issue is for manufacturers to be careful in the way they word things because some people do know better .


Your comment below:

" The Fuji, PacBay, American Tackle, Alps , SeaGuide and other titanium guides are all an alloy but they are referred as solid titanium"


I don't believe that to be true , if i remember correctly they call their titanium guides "Titanium " but NOT (SOLID) titanium . Calling titanium guides titanium is fine it's when you start referring to them as 100% TITANIUM & SOLID titanium where the marketing babble comes in .

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Rick Hall (---.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 08:36AM

That was my point exactly Herb. We (SeaGuide) try to let you know exactly is in the product.

There is a lots of hype, embellishing in the industry. Lots of misinformation. No one claims 100% steel do they?

Norman, I do not know of a manufacturer that has their own proprietary steel or titanium. Just not cost effective even for the king of components Fuji.

Check the SeaGuide catalog, no @#$%&. We tell you the ceramics materials, no fancy names to @#$%& you. We give you hardness,specific gravity, thermal conductivity, as well as frame materials.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 08:45AM

I did not miss the point, I believe you did, But that is beside the point. When people refer to titanium guides they know they are all alloys, and there is no guides made of pure titanium. I think everyone understands that point, especially those in the components business. It is convention to refer to titanium alloys as 100% or solid titanium. Similar to the situation with steel, or even aluminum. In fact, one cannot get 100 % chemically pure titanium. So when someone refers to something being made of 100% titanium they are referring to it being made entirely of a titanium alloy versus a titanium coating. I understood that point, and Rick did also.

Norm

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Rick Hall (---.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 09:02AM

Norman you are the exception to understanding materials. Herbs comment about 100% titanium is exactly what I meant, whether you believe me or not. Most in the industry do not understand materials because of all the hype. I have been selling components for 15 years ( after my gun days) and always been confusion on the titanium vs TI coatings all the way back to my days at Pac Bay.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 09:14AM

Apparently i got the point all along Norm , thanks Rick for confirming . Norm , your comment below is NOT true at all , not all anglers know that and thats why manufacturers must stay away from the words " 100% " and "Solid" when referring to titanium .


" When people refer to titanium guides they know they are all alloys"

I love Ricks honesty in telling customers exactly like it is with no marketing hype , actually i love it , SeaGuide has the mindset of serious anglers and knows what they like and dislike , Phil Ewanicki's new favorite company of all time i bet .

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 09:18AM

Rick I am sure you understood exactly what Geoff was saying, as well as I did. He meant 100% titanium ‘alloy’ versus titanium coating. If you meant otherwise, then I have a problem with your snarky and sarcastic 100% post. You two are competitors, and you should have known better. You can hype your product on your own post but not on your competitor’s.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Rick Hall (---.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 09:21AM

Not hyping anything. That is the point. Additionally I asked the first comment. I understood after Geoff replied.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 09:23AM by Rick Hall.

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.sub-174-240-138.myvzw.com)
Date: May 16, 2019 12:26PM

Rick and I had a nice telephone conversion this morning and we are still friends. Rick said I may know a lot more about titanium and it alloys then most, but I still find it very hard to believe that most rod builders don’t know that all titanium guides are alloys. My posts where meant to educate, rather than confuse. If I confused people I apologize, but I personally have no problems with the term 100% or solid titanium, because I know that they are talking about a 100% or solid titanium alloy, and thus to me it’s not hype. It would only be hype if pure titanium had superior properties to titanium alloys, which is not the case. Commercials pure titanium would be a terrible guide material to use, one reason no one uses it. James, Geoff, and Rick all know this, or at least they should. I think most people who have read this now know a little more about about the composition of titanium guides.
Norm

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Geoff Staples (---.wavecable.com)
Date: May 16, 2019 01:01PM

Just so everyone's clear, Rick and I go back most of those 15 years he mentioned, so my feathers don't get too ruffled when he wants to split hairs and bust my chops a little.
For the sake of accuracy, I'll ask our marketing department to modify the original post and change the "100%" part. I thought the term "solid" did a good a job of differentiating between all-titanium and PVD coated steel, but we're certainly open to suggestions. I checked out the SeaGuide catalog for ideas but found zero specifics regarding their Ti material (and no heavy duty Ti guide frame.)
I've reposted the video link below for those rod builders who want to get a look at these new Alps Titanium Heavy XN's. The fit and finish of these guides is simply stunning, and exactly what builders expect from Alps.

[www.youtube.com]

Geoff Staples
www.batsonenterprises.com

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: Bob McKamey (---.se.biz.rr.com)
Date: May 16, 2019 01:57PM

Besides being involved in the custom rod building market, I keep up with the trends in the completed rod market as well. I will assure you that completed rod manufacturers use the term - "Titanium" very loosely. I see so many of them in the completed rod market, when boosting their advertising and marketing ploys, using Titanium to describe and help sell their rods, when the guides are actually titanium coated.

Bob McKamey
Mud Hole Custom Tackle
bobm@mudhole.com

Re: ALPS Titanium HXN Guides are Here!
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 16, 2019 02:08PM

I personally do have a big problem with a titanium alloy being called solid titanium or 100% titanium because the facts are it is not . The " It can be referred to as 100% solid titanium even though it's not " may be A OK for some people but it will never work for me because it's a flat out inaccurate statement, period.

There are countless anglers out there to this day that still ask questions that you would think anybody with fishing knowledge should know but that is not the case and many are confused , the confusion is caused by repeatedly referring to things as something other than what they actually are and deeming it acceptable. People deserve more clarity and they are not getting it .

I applaud Geoff for changing the 100% part and Rick for having the guts to make it clear that what i was talking about is exactly the way his post should have been taken.

Now everybody has had their say and it's time to move on.

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